Suggestions for the Heavy xbow (in General)


QBRanger March 17 2012 5:10 PM EDT

NS stated he might be up to boost this item.

So how about a thread for all the suggestions?

I will start:

Boost its base damage to 5 and make it hit the last minion like MM.

TH3 C0113CT0R March 17 2012 5:12 PM EDT

make its damage equal to the ax/ex bows and make it drain dd damage by the same way they drain str/dex

XD flame away....

see how many people complain then....

Quyen March 17 2012 5:20 PM EDT

heavy xbow, its heavy, so it should pierce better >:D 25% AC piercing? :p

Gohan [Ka-Tet of the Serene] March 17 2012 6:18 PM EDT

I like where Q is going with this thread. Give it ~50% Armor Piercing, with maybe a 10% higher upgrade cost per "x". Also give it a rather hefty dex penalty just from the name "Heavy"

QBPit Spawn [Abyssal Specters] March 17 2012 6:55 PM EDT

Another idea could be hitting through AoI (big heavy xbow hits whatever is in the way rather than being aimed)

Unappreciated Misnomer March 17 2012 7:06 PM EDT

If the HxBow bolt was heavy enough that if the minion being hit failed a strength check, the bolt makes an exit wound and does fractal damage to the next minion

QBRanger March 17 2012 7:22 PM EDT

If the HxBow bolt was heavy enough that if the minion being hit failed a strength check, the bolt makes an exit wound and does fractal damage to the next minion

Why not then use a SoD?

Lord Bob March 17 2012 7:26 PM EDT

Boost its base damage to 5 and make it hit the last minion like MM.
I like this the best.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] March 17 2012 7:37 PM EDT

I prefer the vorpal suggestion. There's currently no ranged weapon that offers the Vorpal property, and hitting last makes sense for magic, but not for a 'standard' attack.

QBPit Spawn [Abyssal Specters] March 17 2012 7:44 PM EDT

What if the heavy exbow (passing some kind of check such as x and st vs st/armor/hp) could knock/stagger a minion to the last minion in order. Changing minion order in battle though is probably way too hard to implement.

Zenai March 17 2012 8:15 PM EDT

Blunt force damage, like knockdown spread damage for a reworked cone of cold in a weapon would fit this weapon in my opinion. You get hit hard enough you fly off your feet or stagger back hitting others possibly causing them damage as well. This could also be similar in practice or theory to splash damage of the SoD just in pure physical damage though. I dunno maybe either of these could assist in reference to how code could be adapted to make it work?

Unappreciated Misnomer March 17 2012 8:51 PM EDT

Why not then use a SoD?

because my idea is that it hits at most 2 minions per shot.

QBRanger March 17 2012 9:21 PM EDT

Changing minion order in battle though is probably way too hard to implement.

Do it the same way as you do MM.

I do not like the vorpal idea as it would hardly be used. Not enough heavy walls in the game to worry about giving up a lot of damage (5 base to 4) to need the vorpal ability.

But that is just my thinking.

Even if you boost its base to 5, I would much rather use the SoD and effect all minions and have the PL minion lose HP from all the splash damage. That worked extremely well vs Dude's heavy wall. In fact so much better than the ELB with its super high 6 base damage.

lostling March 17 2012 9:41 PM EDT

:) how about hitting 2 minions at a time? sorta a piercing shot kinda thing

Phoenix [The Forgehood] March 18 2012 12:00 AM EDT

why not just pierce all minions down the line with some % damage reduction?
AC figures based on the reduced base damage

QBRanger March 18 2012 12:04 AM EDT

MP,

Would that not be just like the SoD?

Phoenix [The Forgehood] March 18 2012 12:26 AM EDT

no SoD splash is based on damage done to first target.
I'm suggesting that the damage be based on damage vs AC on all minions as opposed to damage vs AC and then splashed to other minions

AdminNightStrike March 20 2012 10:55 AM EDT

I'm just waiting on making sure I do the weapons rescale correctly. You've seen it before -- it's that chatmail that you get giving you cash and saying that your weapon has been changed (or deleted).

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] March 20 2012 11:23 AM EDT

Nice!

How are you going to change it NS? Just upping the base by one? OR is it getting something else?

QBRanger March 20 2012 11:28 AM EDT

I'm just waiting on making sure I do the weapons rescale correctly. You've seen it before -- it's that chatmail that you get giving you cash and saying that your weapon has been changed (or deleted).

Wow!!

Thanks!!!!

AdminNightStrike March 20 2012 11:30 AM EDT

How are you going to change it NS?

Probably in a way that everyone will hate :)

QBRanger March 20 2012 11:33 AM EDT

I am certain that will be the case :)

But at least it will give us something to chat about aside from politics.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] March 20 2012 9:40 PM EDT

The best suggestion I've seen so far is actually the 5 base with vorpal ability. The reasoning for this would be that you want to put it on par with the other rare ranged weapons while keeping it different. You shouldn't give it 6 base damage as that's exclusive to bows. This means you're left with 5 base damage and an ability or 4 base and a powerful ability that lessens the need to do real damage. The vorpal aesthetically fits this weapon first off. The vorpal would put it on par with other rare ranged weapons and give a new niche for them at the same time.

QBRanger March 20 2012 9:47 PM EDT

The best suggestion I've seen so far is actually the 5 base with vorpal ability.

While it may seem to go in line with a crossbow, why would anyone really use it as a primary weapon over the SoD. Same base damage, no vorpal but does a heck of a lot more damage vs almost all characters.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] March 20 2012 9:51 PM EDT

To be able to not train DM and still make an effective ranged attacker.

QBRanger March 20 2012 9:55 PM EDT

To be able to not train DM and still make an effective ranged attacker

I do that quite well now.

With the SoD, I hit any heavy AC wall, even backed by SS, many times a round. My SoD does tons of damage to the other minions, negating a lot of the PL/TSA. Then I have a mage or magic familiar kill the heavy wall.

In fact, vs the only character I can think of that uses a real heavy wall with a huge SS, Damage Control, this works so much better than the ELB or the MSB. It will work tons better than a missile weapon with vorpal ability, esp if the wall is backed by a TSA/PL/HP minion. It worked so much better than DM and any bow.

I mention the mage/familiar as we all know that a tank as your only damage dealer is a non-viable character in CB for the obvious reasons.

While vorpal ability is a good idea, practical use in CB would be almost nil.

QBRanger March 20 2012 10:03 PM EDT

I hope I don't come across as anti-change to the heavy xbow.

I would just like something that changes gameplay a bit. Vorpal ability, while nice, would do almost nothing as I suspect hardly anyone would use such a bow.

Just like hardly anyone uses a vorpal blade. But then, melee weapons just suck.

Zenai March 20 2012 10:06 PM EDT

Well no Ranged weapon currently has a Vorpal ability (niche point) and what Nat said this would be useful against all armor and especially useful against walls.(another niche point) finally having the base damage at 5 still makes is on par with other Ranged weapons.

Nat's argument has merit imho, although I am still partial to piercing and knockback damage this is still unique and acceptable overall as to me this is balanced.

Disclaimer: This is my opinion and if you don't like it that is fine you have a right to your opinion too. Let's agree to disagree and not ruin this thread eh?

QBRanger March 20 2012 10:14 PM EDT

Can you point out any character in the top 50 where a vorpal xbow, base damage 5 would be better than a SoD?

Perhaps Construct with 185 AC as a solo minion.

But then you lose the SoD's ability to work so much better vs a lot of other characters.

I would hope a change to the heavy xbow would introduce a nice choice. Something that makes it a real option to use or not use the SoD or bow vs the heavy xbow.

I just do not think a vorpal ability changes much.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] March 20 2012 10:49 PM EDT

A large part of why the Sod is good at the top is that simply most teams at the top are 4 minion ones supported by either AS or PL. However there are several teams where the Hxbow with vorpal would be equivalent or more damage as the SoD.

Zenai March 20 2012 10:49 PM EDT

Ok look at SHD with his old ELB, how many times did he hit per round average 6 or 7 and top was what I think 9 right? I believe his best outlines a strength of that weapon on top of the damage multiplier.

The Sod has splash damage it's essentially weak but once pumped up can pack a punch.

MSKer well it targets magic users and when pumped up can take them out quickly.

ExBow Hehe I think we all know this one quite well already.

ExBow it's not so different than it's more popular brother.

What does the HxBow have right now? Nothing but this would give it something and I am sure once pumped up will show it's worth.

Overall I do think I need to point something out. If you do not plan out your strat and only rely on one thing sooner or later, no matter how pumped it may be, you will get trumped.

Strategies in CB are supposed to be about the culmination of elements in opposition to your target in order to defeat them.

Golden Rule Stated by Jon the CB God: There is no ONE strategy to rule them all.

QBRanger March 20 2012 11:35 PM EDT

I realize one strategy does not rule them all unless of course it is the exbow.

But in the lower to mid ranks, there is not enough ENC to have a real high AC. Near the top, most characters are multiminion.

I doubt people would use this weapon with vorpal ability much if at all. It may just be another axbow. Perhaps for a super specialized strat. Perhaps.

Zenai March 20 2012 11:43 PM EDT

I doubt people would use this weapon with vorpal ability much if at all.

Eh we will never know until it is tried right? I mean honestly theory is fantastic but you cannot truthfully debunk something until it is tested and proven one way or the other.

It may just be another axbow. Perhaps for a super specialized strat. Perhaps.

True but more than this it will be something different, a new option in an already limited list. It's a modification on a weapon that is rarely if at all used, with something like this at least it will see more use even if only experimental.

lostling March 20 2012 11:52 PM EDT

=x hp drain please... or even... VORPAL CROSSBOW! =x every hit drains AC whoot!

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] March 20 2012 11:52 PM EDT

I've actually found axbow to work far better than exbow.

QBRanger March 21 2012 12:14 AM EDT

I've actually found axbow to work far better than exbow.

I still cannot see how that would be.

Zenai March 21 2012 12:35 AM EDT

ExBow was changed from it's original parameters a few times while the ExBow was not. At least I believe this is true I do not do any of the coding so I cannot be exactly sure.

Lord Bob March 21 2012 12:36 AM EDT

I've actually found axbow to work far better than exbow.
It's how you're keeping yourself off my fight list.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] March 21 2012 12:48 AM EDT

ExBow was changed from it's original parameters a few times while the ExBow was not.

They both were changed in the same way.

QBRanger March 21 2012 1:08 AM EDT

It's how you're keeping yourself off my fight list.

But would not the same sized Exbow do the same?

Atomicboy [The Knighthood] March 21 2012 10:10 AM EDT

Hits the minion with the highest ac first.

Damage cannot be absorbed by PL.

TH3 C0113CT0R March 21 2012 11:10 AM EDT

? does it not hit the minion with the highest dex...

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] March 21 2012 11:34 AM EDT

? does it not hit the minion with the highest dex...

Ab was making a suggestion for the Hxbow :)

TH3 C0113CT0R March 21 2012 11:54 AM EDT

oh lol

Gohan [Ka-Tet of the Serene] March 21 2012 12:02 PM EDT

If you add in a % of Vorpal AC negation to AB's suggestion, I think it would be the best suggestion yet. Just like a MSK but instead of mage, it seeks wall minions.

Zenai March 21 2012 1:40 PM EDT

Ok I agree with Gohan that would indeed make it a better weapon and round out the Ranged weapons nicely.

Atomicboy [The Knighthood] March 21 2012 3:02 PM EDT

I would also make the wearer immune to stat drain. If we really want to shake things up. :)

Atomicboy [The Knighthood] March 21 2012 3:09 PM EDT

or immune to a certain degree...

QBRanger March 21 2012 3:19 PM EDT

I would also make the wearer immune to stat drain. If we really want to shake things up. :)

Now that would be GREAT!!!

Lord Bob March 21 2012 3:35 PM EDT

I would also make the wearer immune to stat drain. If we really want to shake things up.
A good idea for a new or retooled set of armor, but not a weapon.

Gohan [Ka-Tet of the Serene] March 21 2012 3:36 PM EDT

I agree with LB, maybe change up the EH a bit to offer the same step ladder down resistance to stat drain perhaps?

Zenai March 21 2012 3:58 PM EDT

Now we are cooking with grease but maybe armor is a subject for a different thread? (Antihijacking post.......lol)

Mikel March 21 2012 8:55 PM EDT

Do it like DD. 1 shot per round, always hits first Minion, by passes AOI.

Bonus for UC minions.
No need to train Dex, and damage based off of Strength, X + UC Level (if trained)
If User has trained UC, the weapon's + adds to the UC to hit ability.

Admiralkiller March 21 2012 10:26 PM EDT

A bow that makes a return path on each 2nd round also doing magical dmg on it's return.

1st round hits 1st person in order doing physical dmg but does = dmg to 5th (or last) minion upon it's return the 2nd round.

Or! Toggle it to do less total dmg but do both physical and magic on each pass.

Wise March 21 2012 11:57 PM EDT

I think boosting it's stat to 5 and making it armor piercing is the best strategy. Plus, if the it pierces all the armor, it should do extra damage so it'll still have a benefit against any minion regardless if they are a heavy wall or not.

stabilo March 22 2012 3:18 AM EDT

you could make in independent of ST
.. so why a hxbow would be dependent on ST anyway? .. maybe 'realoading' takes longer if you don't have enough str.

any ideas what other stat the damage could be based on?

IPoop March 22 2012 5:21 AM EDT

not that i use them but as everyone is using ex/ax bows and they are meant to be so great on that last idea would it not make more sense to have minions using the heavy either regen str/dex or not suffer any dex/str penalties when firing the hxbow even if hit with the other two

IPoop March 22 2012 5:21 AM EDT

that would have been easier if i had just said immunity to ex/axbox effects or regen from there effects when using the hxbow

AdminNightStrike March 27 2012 12:16 PM EDT

Just letting you know this is still happening. I broke a rib and have been busy with that. That really hurts, btw.

QBRanger March 27 2012 12:26 PM EDT

Sorry to read about your pain. It can take a couple months to heal as the ribs move every time you breath.

Motrin 600-800mg every 6 hours works great but eats your stomach up.

AdminNightStrike March 27 2012 12:31 PM EDT

My ortho doc wrapped me in a double wide ace bandage and gave me ty with codine. He said I'm looking at a minimum of 4 weeks.

Is motrin acetaminophen?

Demigod March 27 2012 12:37 PM EDT

Motrin is ibuprofen.

And were you kickboxing? Skydiving? Both?

AdminNightStrike March 27 2012 12:38 PM EDT

Nothing so exciting. I fell down the stairs :(

Demigod March 27 2012 12:39 PM EDT

Ah, short-distance skydiving. No shame in that; you have to start somewhere.

AdminNightStrike March 27 2012 12:57 PM EDT

Ok, so since I'm home today and forced to do nothing, I'm working on this now.

Which means I'm encountering loads of stuff that should be easy that aren't.

When I'm at work, and I get thrown into areas that I have to "fix" that are busted from the ground up, I get frustrated and rip it all out and re-do it.

I'm doing something similar to a small degree with weapons. So, if anyone experiences issues with weapons that have effects (like VA or some such), please speak up.

QBRanger March 27 2012 1:04 PM EDT

acetaminophen is tylenol

Tylenol with Codeine is a nice drug. Not too powerful, yet strong enough for generalized pains.

Toradol is another great drug. Non addictive and yet very excellent pain killer.

If you were in Florida or Arizona I could get you some :)

AdminNightStrike March 29 2012 12:12 AM EDT

1 - 2 every 4 to 6. I've been taking 1 every 12.

I don't get how hiding the pain makes it heal.

QBRanger March 29 2012 12:27 AM EDT

It doesn't.

It heals on its own schedule.

The pain meds are to make you feel better and breath easier.

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] March 29 2012 12:42 AM EDT

Can't NSAIDs actually help healing sometimes? B/c of the AID part of that?

AdminNightStrike March 30 2012 10:22 AM EDT

NS doesn't have AIDS!

Eliteofdelete [Battle Royale] March 30 2012 10:25 AM EDT

Whattt?!? Are you denying our time together NS? :'(
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