Total of 360 votes

Yes, keep USD advertisements off CB		21.7
No, don't make me trade on IGE!		45.0
I'm too poor to care		33.3

Comments

I don't do it, but I see no reason to restrict other people.

-- Sukotto

No!

don't restrict us

-- WeaponX

14th vote

third comment! i think my best

-- BMWheatley

I think there are 4 types of people who will respond to this post:

1. Those who sell their stuff for $USD (will pick No)
2. Those who use USD to buy stuff (will pick No)
3. Those who dont use USD (could pick yes or no, probably Yes)
4. Those who don't play enough orwho really care one way or another (vote unknown).

Considering most will vote with self-interest in mind, the question is, which groups are the largest?

-- Todd

Is this really such a big problem?

-- Sukotto

I can remember a time before USD really influenced CB as much as in the last 2 years, and it has caused some great people to go, but it's also a part of the game; just as much as the $1mill Bank and farming people...

-- 5583 days old {Gaza}

meh

It will happen regardless, so it seems better to me to keep it local in our own forums where at least it can be monitored.

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

-- Vagabond

Within playability guidelines, Jon likes to keep CB as free a market as possible. I say within playability guildlines because we all saw the tat rental nerf.

I don't see why that should change. So we limit USD, what's stopping me from buying Neopoints for USD and selling Neopoints for CB$? What if I lived in a metropolitan area, and wanted to offer to pay people $1mil CB to help me move?

Right now there is no black or white, only white. This would create a black area, white area, and vast vast grey area full of more polls and more limiting and more rules.

Hey Ref, let the kids play.

-- Undertow

No, Don't make it against the rules!!

Theres no point in trying to make people stop paying USD because they wont. So theres no point trying to ban it as it can't be enforced. Bids will just be made via Chatmail. I don't use USD to buy any stuff, but i still think other players should not be restricted in doing so, as its their money.

-- Wasp

Undrtow gets 0% for reading comprehension

"other things outside the CB economy"

duh

-- AdminJonathan

Well, those who do spend $USD on the game certainly do have an advantage. I guess the question is, does it matter?

If you are the guy not spending $USD, and the guy beside you has 5 times your NW, then I suppose it does matter.

All depends on the perspective, I suppose.



-- Todd

Freedom

I think it should be as free as possible.. Unless there is something terribly wrong about it, there shouldn't be any restrictions...

-- Gokhan

Supportership

Whatever the final decision, that people should remain free to buy/"sell" supportership and supporter items on the forum.
For instance, one should still be able to offer his supporter item and/or CBs for his supporterhip.
Or offer CB in exchange for the 6 US$ needed to buy the supporter item.

-- Manta

Dont change what aint broken

You'd also have to do something about namings and supporterships, wouldn't you?... I mean since people would pay in CB$ for the naming/supportership.... and thats basicly CB2$ for USD

-- Devil Burrito

Ways around it....

Like Jon said, it's impossible to keep people from selling/buying for USD. Ads will just say "CM me with offers" and everyone will know what that means.

All this will do is keep everyone from knowing who is using USD. Also, since deals will continue to done via USD, it'll just make it harder for people to assess the value of items since they won't be as privy to going USD rate.

The big losers end up being the ones who don't use USD. For example, Joe USD may know that he can buy a DB for $2.5M and resell for $80 USD. The guy who never deals with USD may not know this cause he can't look it up in forums.

-- Nixon Jibfest

it is easy to stop USD

as I have mentioned, and won't happen, just stop ALL xfers to other users... fixed :)

/\88/\

-- spydah

<Insert title here>

I don't buy cbd with usd, cause i am too poor. I dont believe in selling items/money for USD only... but as long as it is used as an option and not a requirement then i see no problem in it. Currently I sell cb1/cb2$ for USD, but if someone want to buy cb1 with cb2 or vice versa, I do that too. To stress my point again, USD could be an option for payment, but shouldn't be the only source of payment required.

-- Mandy

USD should still be allowed...

In any game, USD will exchange hands. What lured me to this game was the USD potential. Unfortunately, I like it so much that I'm the one spending the USD. =P

If people spend USD for the game, that is their choice (maybe put in a Jon tax? ;). But Vagabond is right, it is better to put it in the forums where the sales can be under monitor, and easier to spot potential scammers.

I like this game because I keep on thinking that all my stuff is worth something and the time I have spent hitting down and enter and page up is earning me a few cents at a time. If that carrot disappears...

-- xDanELx

well there are good and bad things about this rule.
The bad is that it will make it harder to trade USD for CB money or items.
The good is that since its harder its more likely gonna be more expensive to buy CB for USD since htere will be more demand but less supply.

-- {EQ}Viperboy

Comment

I have spent roughly $116 USD on supportership and item naming. Removing USD from the game...I would want a refund of my money.

-- Relic

Too poor, and...

...to stop USD from dominating, changes have to be made to make Net Worth itself less dominating.

What if net worth were given a pseudo-PR, kind of like the tattoos had (not so pseudo any more). The higher the net worth, the higher you HAD to win to get decent rewards. Or, just make items less powerful in general.

One thing that keeps me scratching my head is a change made way back on CB1. There was a change where the net worth increase in an item had an additional effect on weapon damage beyond the fact that the x had increased.

Why was this done? Shouldn't adding additional x have diminishing returns? (I think it still does, just not as much as if you left net worth ENTIRLEY out of that equation). If you want to spend 5 million adding one ore more x, go ahead...but that x shouldn't mean any more than adding a $5000 x.

Actually, maybe that was worked out of the CB2 damage equation (since supposedly that was all re-worked from scracth). So maybe I should get confirmation on that before ranting.

-- QBsutekh137

NO USD trade = less money for Jon. Realistically, how many people actually pay for their supportership/naming with their own USD vs trading CB so someone can do it for them?

Removing this option = less supportership = less item naming = less money for Jon

-- Arorrr

The Big Spender ...

I've been guilty of spening too much USD. I would like it to be stopped. Would this also reflect in cb1? If not then you might get the 'spenders' concentrating on cb1.

-- Phrede

less USD = no good

less USD--> Less chance to have big NW for tanks. With this race against Mages (free NW pretty much) i am gonna loose in catching up huge damages from mages. There goes tank life

-- YOU

Trading CB$ for USD is lame, however it is the fact that game money has 'real world' value that the CB economy is what it is. People play harder and enjoy the game more because they feel that what they have is truly valuable.

I can't say whether it should be gotten rid of, but I am tired of getting aced in the FS/WTB forum by big USD spenders.

-- Starseed^Lure

To keep usd from being traded means not to pay supportership

Because we get item out of it, which ends up selling off for certain price which then becomes the amount equivalent to usd.

-- [-war-]

I don't use USD, unless for supporter things.

... no comment ...

-- AdminShade

No Match

If someone bids with USD in an auction, all these other guys stand no chance in the auction. Besides, some people for some reason can't use paypal or whatever whenever they want! This games is starting to turn into "Pay for amazing items with a lot of USD, or be restricted to using weak items because you can't (or don't want to ) use USD."

-- Davie

If CB didn't stand for Carnage Blender it would stand for Choice Bonanza.

There's a barrow load of choices in this game from how many minions, how many spells, camping or not, economic clans or standard etc etc. Don't remove the choice to use USD...

-- AdminG Beee

Well, restricting USD on CB would result in less crap items being sold on here, and only high value items being sold in offsite auctions.

-- AdminQBVerifex

Awesome Idea

How about.. some kind of networth cap on how much you can equip on your character based upon the character's PR? :D

The networth cap should be high enough so that players can still buy CB2$, forge, and camp within reason, but low enough so that one person can not have 10 times more networth than Joe with similar PR.

I'd suggest somewhere along the lines of 100x to 150x the PR being the limit. So.. a 100k PR character can't equip items which would add up to over 15 million networth. Sounds reasonable to me ;)

tattoo networth should probably be discounted.

Some other benefits:
Maybe we could remove the silly blacksmith fee.
Maybe we can give tanks some more advantages without worrying about another Todd
Retains an open, but limited market.
No more complaints of a 10k pr char with a 20 million networth bow beating down a 30k pr char.
And most importantly..
I will stop whining. (at least on the unfair advantage topic)

-- [FireBreathing]Chicken

well, either discount tattoo for PR, or count them for networth. 'tis debateable. Would be more interesting if we counted it towards networth and not PR :)

-- [FireBreathing]Chicken

Makes sense too.. If you give me a 150 pound bow, do you think I'll be able to bend it? even lil a bit? :p noope.

Likewise for those big swords/axes.. How can we swing it around when it takes all our effort to lift it up.

I guess some exceptions to this reasoning would be..

Don't know how this would apply to armor though, since i guess you could just sit there o.o
How heavy can whips get?!
Power shields technically have no substance since they have a protection rating of zero.

Well.. meh!

-- [FireBreathing]Chicken

Ahh.. I love agreeing with myself.

Sorry I couldn't bunch this all up into one post. Thoughts come to me in itty bitty fragments.
I'll stop posting now.

-- [FireBreathing]Chicken

Uh oh...

We got Chicken going...LOOK OUT!

Whoever mentione dthe CB econpmy has a good point. Making net worth less worth-y would seriously but a damper on things like camping, competitive bidding, etc.

But I will be completely open and say I think camping is flat-out retarded, and I believe everyone should have a decent chance at rares.

Net worth still has to be important (it is one of the few advantages tanks have over mages), just not so important that people will spend over $100 for a virtual item on a game that is barely 90 days old. (Not sure what the highest item has gone for, but pretty sure an ELB sold for over $100 already).

-- QBsutekh137

so umm.. any comments?

-- [FireBreathing]Chicken

Well, maybe you have to pay with USD or something outside the cb economy to be one of the top ranking players, but you can also have fun without being the best...

-- mihalis

Oh dear...

...I am becoming Chicken. *smile*

This is getting philosophical, but here is my take on USD. I will speak in analogy.

Let's say there is a unit of currency in the real world known as a "Trinket". Trinkets are very useful for buying steroids. So, people earn Trinkets through various and sundry means, because they all want steroids to grow faster and be stronger. Steroids are expensive, because their release is limited to a few people who stand around outside the steroid factory in hopes that some steroids will fall from the sky. These people who wait around (let's call them "waiters") sell the steroids for a song, and get lots of wonderful Trinkets.

There is a "bigger" unit of currency on the planet called "dollars". Dollars are used to buy "real" things, like food, shelter, clothing, etc. Some people have more dollars than others, so they decide to start buying Trinkets with the Dollars.

Some even use dollars to buy steroids directly. The Waiters LOVE this. Sometimes waiting around the steroid factory gets old, fast, and the waiters don't even always use the steroids (or get too many to possibly use themselves). So, they are happy to sell steroids for real Dollars so they can buy nicer clothes, etc.

Johnny Law sees all this, and he sees folks complaing about not having enought Trinkets to compete with the Dollars. So, he says, "You can no longer use Dollars to buy steroids!" This is great, until the Dollar-Bringers meet the Waiters outside of town to buy their steroids. The people with Trinkets are still left with very little steroids to buy.

---------------------------------------------

A transparent analogy to be sure. But there is another way to look at it. Johnny Law could have just as easily said, "Hm, what if steroids use were cut down?" The Dollar-Bringers would be less willing to take their real money and waste it on steroids, so Trinkets would be more valuable. Waiters might go home more, meaning normal folk might even find steroids on the ground once in a while.

The philosophies are these: steroids (I have nothing against steroids -- I inhale one twice a day for my ashtma) should be made less valuable so that the whole steroid economy slows down, bringing down the Dollar folks, the Waiters, and makes Trinkets have more worth.

The other is that steroids are fine as is. If this is your philosophy, then there is nothing you can do about Dollars. It is a free economy in this case, and all you will do is move the Dollar stigma off site. Instead of people saying "You dirty Dollar Bringer!" they will say, "You dirty out-of-town steroid buyer!" There is no difference.

Both philosophies are fine by me (conceptually). I think steroids (net worth) are too valuable in this game, but that's just me. If you disagree, then things are fine, and let the Dollar Bringers bring the bucks right in.

-- QBsutekh137

Having Fun

You are right, mihalis, you can have fun. I played the game for almost a solid year )on CB1) and had the time of my life. I really did. That Halberd and Fluted Steel Cuirass saw me through good times and bad, and I was able to keep moving up.

Then I was no longer able to keep moving up. My PR was, to be sure (I still remember Zubbus' amazement when I passed him...I was the first he could remember doing so). And still my score wallowed. For a while it was because I was going against veteran's who had several month's playing on me. Except Strum. He started mere weeks before me, and yet was WAY ahead. Untouchable by me, though we had the same strat (good ole TTMM!). He used USD. A LOT of it.

When he quit, Spid was the heir apparent (and had already shown he could compete for first, even against Strum). "Screw it," said I. And I dumped $400 on an ELS and large CB-T. I never looked back. With that money and a bit more, I went to Number One. Once Spid stopped jacking around he soundly thrashed me once more, but it was USD that took me to the top. Strum, Spid, and RedDwarf...a trio that generally dominated the top of CB1 for...what, Todd, 6 months at least? Six months. That's a long time for a game to be dominated by 3-4 guys.

Is everyone out for number one? Nope. I am, though. I see no reason to play, otherwise. Look at me!!! Who-oooo! Yeah, Number 9! For sixty days straight! Yay me! *sarcasm off*. For anyone who utilizes 20+ hours of BA a day, they are aspiring to _something_. Top clan, camping, top score, best Haste, who knows...but you don't put that kind of time in just to say, "Yeah, I like to dink around and be just barely in the Top Ten at everything." Or maybe you do, and I admire your maturity (though would wonder why you put in 20+ hours of BA a day then).

It is people like I mention above who get worked up about USD. I am a big, big baby, I will be the first to admit. The USD folks eventually pay for their dollar-usage. Either they end up selling out at a loss, or the game closes down and the economy collapses. It's like speculating on Frozen Orange Juice Concentrate futures.

ANYWAY, I am glad you are having fun, and I hope you continue to for many months/years to come! I just wanted to be the voice of folks who aren't having as much fun as they used to, even if I am the only one.

-- QBsutekh137

rofl

-- [FireBreathing]Chicken

FORS?

Okay, at the risk of FORS fame, what about a policy which "frowned on" (since you could never truly prevent) exchanging items for USD but allowed the exchange of $CB for USD.

I don't have a problem with the USD aspect of CB, except that the really rare items (ELB) are almost never sold for $CB. This would allow "pure" players a chance to save up or camp and get the high-end items, but also allow those with USD to buy $CB, and those looking to cash out their items to sell them for $CB and then exchange it for USD. I understand this doesn't change the market that much, you can still buy up insane amounts of CB and bid on items, but it might take some of the sting out for players who can't invest USD.

feel free to rip this apart now....

-- mchaos

Solves Itself

Everyone's been saying that if USD spending becomes against the rules it will be impossible to stop, yet in the same sentance they add that USD sales through non-CB means will be unmanagable, and easy for scammers to take advantage of.

Well there you go, that's the solution right there. I wouldn't buy/sell items for USD, for that reason alone. There's no way to manage it and someone could rip me off.

Once someone loses $100 bucks and a player dissappears I think "black market" USD sales would drop off pretty quickly.

-- Reebok

Broke

yes I'm too poor/too young to be able to spend USD on this game I cant have paypal til 2 years

-- [Banned]Monty

right on, Sutekh

Chet, I think you summed up my views on USD perfectly. Good work!

I'm competitive, extremely competitive. Putting in 24 hours a day and buying all BA for most of the 4 months sicne this game went live just to get thrashed by USD spenders that haven't put in any more effort that me is very, very discouraging. So discouraging, in fact, that this game isn't very fun for me now. For those of you that don't pay attention to the top 10, I've sold my character Becoming (2nd most powerful team in the game at the time of the sale) for this very reason. Maybe the buyer will put him to good use. :)

Like Chet I spent some USD in CB1. While it allowed me to dominate compared to before, I will always regret it. For me, it corrupts the game. It amazes me how readily people will snatch up items with USD and not think twice. I could never do the same and feel good about myself. I like to earn everything the old fashioned way. Call me silly, call me a sore loser, call me whatever you please; I'm sure some of those names are fitting, but this is just how I feel.

To wrap this up, I'd like to congratulate those of you who are succeeding without USD, especially those few in the top 10 that haven't spent a dime outside of supportership. I have mountains of respect for you! :D

-- Becoming

Becoming

I did not realize you had sold your character...I am sorry you did -- you were doing very well!

Let's make one thing clear: In most cases, USD expenditures fall in line with MASSIVE play time. Ranger's PR is lower, but that is because he fired a minion. The man plays...a lot. At most, he misses the night shift (we can't all be Steve. *smile*).

On CB1, the triad of power (Strum, Todd-Spydah, and myself) were also PR demons.

I should note, I am talking at the Top. Shabbleflab was a wonderful camper and spent USD to blow up through the ranks in the most amazing fashion I had ever seen. I can see how it is disheartening for everyone getting beaten that way. I should stop there, because I am not sure how much of 'flab's success was camping and how much was USD -- he was an exemplaray camper if my facts are correct.

In fact, I am not sure I can recall a Top Dog who didn't have a decent PR. But that's the point. There are a LOT of great PRs. And all of those hard workers deserve credit. But, coincidentally, it is the USD spenders who end up at the top. They seem to have that extra edge that let's them win.

Right, it's not a coincidence.

Thank you for weighing in, Becoming. People think mage teams have it all going on. Your team is wonderful. But it shows that magic gets SEVERELY spanked by AMF and by net worth. We are only 90 days in, and we are already seeing the tide turn. I am not sure how long Steve will last without sleep. *smile* But he will fall. He doesn't spend USD and doesn't have a net worth focus even if he did.

Jonathan is the master of balance. I don't want a solitary soul to think he is sitting there going, "Oh man, I never thought of this!" Goodness, is has probably kept him up nights. He has balanced magic, tanks, net worth, rares, PR, spells, and intrinsics since CB began. Now he has new items and tattoos to deal with as well. He's on it, I promise you. And even if his choices dishearten guys like Becoming and myself, hey, we aren't the world. We aren't the children. He has to balance for the masses, and he has done an exemplaray job thus far. Please understand that before commenting on that aspect of things.

-- QBsutekh137

Thats sick thinking Frog29

What about the poor if people can trade for money, the rich people gain, and the poor have less of a chance at excelling in the game! if anything it is segrgation with the rich gaining ahead and the people who don't spend money uselessly losing! also it is too easy to scam people -- frog29 ------------------------------------------------ You need to separate yourself from the crowd with that "poor man's mentality" no1 gives a hoot when you say "ooh poor me, give me cash , im too lazy to work" If thats your way of thinking, then you deserve to be where your at! Change your attitude/perspective then go change your life. Don't persecute the people going for gold, u dont want success then just set aside.

-- [SoV] Shiv

Exacerbates NW Imbalances

Taking an objective viewpoint and looking at everyone rather than the top 10, I think USD's bad for the CB economy. CB2$ are distributed pretty fairly and evenly; you'll have a pretty standard amount of CB2$ based on the number of battles you've fought. However, the number of people wlling to spend USD for items and with enough spare cash in the real world to do so is markedly lower.

There are a few individuals who are able/willing to do this, and it locks up large amounts of NW in the hands of a few individuals.

The frozen orange juice concentrate speculation analogy posted earlier was very true, except there are such different risk tolerances and pockets. Some people don't care.

Functionally, it's like asking whether a game is better with a large middle class, a few merchants, and a few spendthrifty fools, or a set of robber-barons. I'd hope CEO's and peons alike could agree on the better economic model.

This is all separate from the need to balance physical damage, or how we get there. Inflating the problem away with extra items is probably much more damaging than adding CB2$ inflation explicitly because CB2$ are useless in battle beyond their ability to do blacksmithing and BA, which would also inflate. Items have a very direct effect and we'd have to add another class of super-items on top of today's best, and Jon rightfully likes clean, discrete sets of stuff.

-- Mags

as a semi -retird free spender..no more USD...I think part of the urge to spend big cash is the fact that the campers score the best gear...many people give as much time as possible to the game, but can't match the campers devotion...ergo..the only way to get uber gear/weapons is usd...I did....Now I don't..I'm Done..now I want to fight..learn to forge..grow into my weapons..earn and learn, no more willy nilly spending of usd...some private chats with real people here have really opened my eyes to the problems we, the free spenders, have created......some limits to usd spending may help balance the game, but the same could be said for camping....

-- House

If people really want to spend their money on CB$, why not let them? I do miss the days of free stuff from old mates quitting, but hey, the players put time and effort into what they got, and the person paying has put time & effort into making the money. We all win in the long run :-)

-- 5583 days old {Gaza}

I thought you liked stupidness/laziness taxes?

-- Will [Retired]

O'well

I'm to poor to care.

-- RAND0M-X

Way too poor to care

I've spent USD on items in CB1 and CB2, namings, supportorships etc. And everytime I have I've felt really really guilty....

I'm paying real money for things that don't exist!!! A bit of code on a server somewhere! It feels plain wrong sometimes! Hasn't stopped me though and probably won't again.

Is it right or wrong? - dunno, I think it just IS. USD is just another strategy, so far it's been the winning one but it's not always guaranteed.

I admire Jon's efforts to keep it out of the game but I can't help thinking that maybe some of that cash changing hands should go into the hands of 'The Creator'. Just a thought.

By the way can I congratulate Chet on his essay writing skills? I've got some reports to produce soon, do you take CB2$ or USD?

-- QBJohnnywas

An idea

That could be applied to some things IRL.

Banning the use of USD will just push the sale of items with it underground. Well, on to different forums/instan messaging/interesting use of profile comments.

Why not (as should be done with the selling of companionship IRL for example) legalise the selling of items with USD and keep it in the FS/WTB forum.

But add a CB2 fee for the privalidge (damn my spelling sucks this afternoon...). In additional to the posting fee, any transaction not made by CB2 (bacause there are still some things that cannot be sold in auction) are subject to a fee sent to central bank (or sim.) This fee could either be automated somehow as part of the item transfer process, or left up to the individuals involved, but subject to things like resets for breaking deals, if the fee is not made.

People will still sell items in CMs or on outside sites/messaging/IRL but if people really (and I do mean *really*...) wanted to police this, transfer logs could be studied to item transfers without payments in return.

Of course, that sort of stops generous donations of free items somewhat...

Capitalist additon... If the sale of items with USD is prohibited from the CB2 website, I'll set my own forum up, an auction house so to speak, and charge only a little commision off the top for deals made there. ;)

-- AdminQBGentlemanLoser

Before I say my part I would have you know that I have never spent so much as a penny on this game. I have gotten everything I have through $CB2 or trades, even my supportership.

It strikes me as rather infantile to whine about someone with more means than youself. Bill Gates has more money than me, but I have never even had thoughts to complain about his massive sums of money. Who cares. You get by with what you have. Furthermore, I believe that USD has kept the value of $CB2 quite consistent in my short time of playing. Were USD to be removed from the game there is no telling what may happen to the economy. My guess is inflation. Inflation that will increase exponentially.

To all you who fret about being able to stay competitive with people who spend USD on this game: just know that they are the ones losing here. Maybe not losing a game, but certainly losing their money...

Just have fun. That's what I'm doing, and with a decent amount of effort you can remain competitive without outside aid.

-- Mem

I think there are deeper issues at hand here....

First let me say that part of the reason the USD system works is because there's recourse -- you post a deal, you rip someone off, your character gets erased and/or you get banned. If USD deals were removed from the system (and more specifically, that accountability removed) then as someone else said, scams would go rampant, there would be no recourse, and people (having been ripped off of lots) would stop using USD, probably stop playing the game, people would try to take it out on the game, etc.... if everything went black market, it would get ugly quick.

Here's my first big conern... and this one is more people-oriented, and based more on personal experience. YMMV.

Paypal = linked to credit card... credit card = a serious problem for people who don't realize there's serious danger in using credit cards...Now I know that a lot of people really use USD to buy and sell stuff... and not a credit card... but I doubt that everyone here is spending their cold hard cash alone. And that worries me.... if you haven't woken up one with with 2-3x your annual income in debt and wondered how you were going to get out of that situation... then you probably don't realize the dangers therein. I don't think CC's are evil in all instances or anything like that, just in most :) But if someone had a problem (like being very, very competitive) and was able to use their credit card to get ahead in their favorite hobby (and that situation can be applied to building Battle Bots or whatever) then you've got a potentially dangerous situation on hand, especially if there's an addictive personality in the mix.... I love playing CB, but it worries me sometimes when I see people spending multiple hundreds of dollars on stuff. Again, I know that some people really do use "real money" and not credit cards, but I don't know that that's always the case. But hey, Credit Card = Debt. Credit Card != USD.

My other big concern is camping... especially when so many items are sold for USD (like the elbow) -- I think the way the store is set up is still open to abuse. I know the botchecks are there and they work good, but there are still things that you could do that would practically guarantee your success as a camper. No, I won't go into details (except for Jon) but there are enough creative types on here that I'm certain I'm not the only one who's thought of this. And no, it's not using a bot or something that's against the rules at all, but it would still give the person(s) doing it a very, very competitive edge, and no, I haven't tried it here. But again, Jon, if you're interested in some examples and suggestions to make the store less vunerable to abuse, please let me know and I'll expand. I've also said it before and I'll say it again, I think limiting the rares that someone pulls out of the store on an hourly/daily/weekly basis would help. Let's say you find a MH or elbow or something like that in the store.... or, let's say you won it off a radio station... most radio stations (for example) limit you to winning one contest every 30 days. Even if you just won a pair of movie tickets to some movie you didn't really want to see. Because they don't want people to be able to abuse the system, just because this guy knows all the trivia, or has his phone set up for speeddial or whatever. So if you found that MH or elbow, maybe you'd be limited to what else you could get that day... or 1 big rare and 1 small rare.... I think that would alleviate a deeper problem and help spread the wealth around... and then it wouldn't be the wealthy getting wealthier.... and before everyone says I'm just jealous.... I used to camp a lot (mostly on CB1) and I got plenty of nice stuff (the second elbow in the wild, for example, and yes, I sold it for USD) and I got several rares at a time more than once... But this is the deeper concern... anything that lets people create something out of nothing, especially when that something is USD, has the potential for abuse... and if there's a way, people will find that way, and they'll abuse it... and it just brings in exactly the kind of people you don't want to be bringing in... then people don't come to play or have fun... they come to make money. I could go on, but I won't.

I didn't vote.... because I just don't know.... I do like having the option to sell stuff for USD... I sold most of my stuff on CB1 (before *the* announcement) and have enjoyed using the paypal money for various tutorials and items and all sorts of neat stuff you can buy on the web with paypal these days. It's the potential for abuse that worries me... nothing could be done about people using credit cards instead of money... but that's true in any situation. The store, and the ability to gain so much (and keep on doing it, and have it practically dominated by one or two people at a given time) is what worries me. I don't think camping should be done away with -- I just think things could be done that would limit the potential for abuse, and the potential for some people to dominate the market. If there was a wider dispersement of items coming out of the store, there would be less USD changing hands... I sold various things for USD, but usually only if I didn't have one already. And a lot of other people would rather have x item and use it than have the money for x item. But those are probably the people not getting item x right now.

Just my $0.02

-- Ascent

my $.02

ok, I have given this a lot of thought, how if Jon were to restrict the selling of CB items for USD then it seems a little hypocritical for jon to offer up a different supporter item. While Jon has server expenses to run this game (I fully understand that it takes $$$ and time to run a server) but I also have to pay money to get internet access and to get my computer. so shouldnt I have the right to sell my CB items and money for USD? now restricting that doesnt make it so I cant, but if its shamed upon then it will still be harder for me to sell things for USD.

-- [Beo]AggroHippie

Jon:

Yes, actually, I DID read and understand that. But it's not impossible, just impossible to do effectivly. Lots of games TRY to stop USD transactions and fail. All it does it create more rules. I'm just saying, if people complain about this, how long before they whine that we're doing it off site? Especially if an effective offsite exchange starts.

-- Undertow

PANIC IN THE STREETS

I see today everyone is trying to cash out before the US ban..this activity will only quicken the hammer fall........and now we see how is really doiing this for the money....not pointing my finger at everyone selling right now..the guilty know who the are....

-- House

Read Jon's post carefully

I'm not pointing out anyone in particular, but I've noticed a lot of people commenting about a USD ban. Jon never mentioned anything about banning USD. He only brings up the possibility of no advertising for USD in the forums. There's a difference. I've discovered that Jon is usually precise about how he phrases his comments.

-- Nixon Jibfest

Addiction to CB = Addiction to USD

Yup, that pretty much sums it up...=)

-- {CB1ate}aupStar

Wow think about it CB3 no supportership fees and the only way to transfer any item is through the auctions. What do you all think would happen? Or how about CB4 no supportership fees and only way to transfer any item is through the auctions and also no store all store items spawn in auctions.

-- budice

Now add to my above comments that you can save up BA for up to 12hours in CB3 or CB4 and you should have the most pure game that you could would be fair to all who have to work or have school also.

-- budice

Hey Big Spenders!

I don't even look at it as a "fair for everyone" type thing. I see it as more of a "What kind of game do we want to be playing."

How intimidating is it for a new player to come here and see items selling for $150 dollars? If I was joining right now, with no prior CB experience (I had the bonus of knowing it was fun ahead of time) I would look at that and immediately say forget this.

Compare it to a poker game. Walk into a party and ask who wants to play poker for quarters, a ton of people will be like, "Yeah that's a really good idea!" Now walk into the same party and ask who wants to play poker with twenty dollar antes. You're going to get a few high rollers who step up, and everyone else is going to say "No way I'm not wasting my cash on this!"

So what do you guys want, friendly, or high stakes?

-- Reebok

For those with little CB2 to spend

Make a mage and save up for a while.

;)

-- AdminQBGentlemanLoser

Too much chance of scamming.

It's unavoidable that somebody will spend USD on the game, and simply put, if you ban it from the forums and force people to do their trading through pm or other forums, it opens up the market to massive un-punished scamming. You can go "sure, I'll pay you $150 for the elbow, send it over" in pm, and when the person sends it over, you don't have to pay, since there is no record of the transaction. I know jon doesn't like people being scammed, and I don't think USD makes enough of an impact here. i think the way it's done is great, very safe for player transactions, but you can't get money/items materialized out of nowhere from the creator for USD. I feel no change is needed. :)

-- [From CB1]Tequito

I think the best way to prevent this problem is to have the Armorer and Weaponsmith charge an amount closer to the value of the item. Then the money paid for the item to the merchant LEAVES the economy.

Jon has already nixed the idea of having the items go directly to auction insead of the shops, so the next best thing is to have the merchants use some kind of AI to determine the market value and sell close to that value.

I would do something like this, since the auction is out of the question:

1) Set the initial prices of the rares closer to the current market value.

2) Every time an item sells in less than 5 minutes, add X% to the price and up the chance or producing a like item in the future.

Every time an item stays in the shop long enough to be dropped from the inventory, reduce the price by Z% and decrease the chance of producing a like item in the future.

Right now the merchants are just plain imbeciles.



-- miteke

miteke

if rares cost more in the stores, trust me, campers will pass on the expense. You think rares are expensive now??? what do you think it'll be if Jon implements your idea?

-- Nixon Jibfest

The reason I quit.

USD.... I got sick of a no stratagy game. Eventually this game will consist of a handfull of people buying items to get to the top, and a handfull of people taking advantage of them. Them mostly being kids with access to their parents credit cards.

-- WAR420

Heh.

Just FYI, WAR420, most of the big spenders are not kids. I am 33, Strum was old, spydah just had twins, and Todd...well, Todd is as old as dirt (or so the Germans would have us believe).

-- QBsutekh137

WAR420 go GET A JOB!

stop wasting our time. Good riddens you quit, just more room at the top for me :D

-- [SoV] Shiv

Wait a Sec.

Shiv War does have a good point I mean what if ur too young to get a job I have to be 16 to get a job but I'm only 14 we cant spend USD$...I mean whoever has the most USD$ rules Cb.

-- [Banned]Monty

What IS the CB winning formula?

Will pure PR win the day? Uh, nope.
Will pure NW win the day? Nope there too.

Power Rating + NW = The best CB team. It's always been that way. If you want to be top 5 in CB 6 months from now, you cannot do it without spending some USD and without working your tail of getting experience.

Better yet, let someone else do the work for you, and in 6 months- 1 year, buy a top 10 character for $USD, then spend more $USD equipping it. Voila, you will rule CB with no work at all, except the work it took you to get that $USD.

That's the way it is. Now, the question is, .. IS this a problem? Depends on your reasons for playing CB. If you want to be top 10 and dont want to spend $USD. Good luck.

-- Todd