Total of 181 votes

Keep the RoE like it is		64.1
Nerf the RoE		5.0
Get rid of the RoE entirely		9.9
Prevent N*B users from equipping an RoE		21.0

Comments

Woo First

I like the RoE, because like you said it allows you to adjust exp distribution. And that allows for unique strats.

Also, this game is all about choice, and the RoE vs tattoo choice is one of the best choices in cb (exp vs a better character)

-- Miandrital

Keep it.

I would rather the RoE be kept the way it is, and a tattoo growth service be added as discussed in the last poll.

-- Lord Bob

3rd

Keep it like it is.

-- The Cornerback23

Change = No no

The RoE is fine as it is.. Just everyone likes to use them, for leveling as it will help them grow faster.. As long as no more enter the game, they will all eventually be in use.

-- 48Zach

leave it!

i just started to borrow a RoE for my ncb! keep it!

-- drudge

keep the RoE, when ppl get an NCB then they already got a high lvl tattoo unless they sell it, NUB can always buy high lvl tattoos so i dont see a problem with it

-- Angel of Death

One little word: CHOICE

Nobody has to use a RoE and not grow a big tattoo. We have a thing that happens in CB where certain choices are 'advised' as if they are rules. "If you run an N*B use a RoE" being one of them. I owned a RoE for about five minutes back when they were first introduced. I used it for those five minutes then sold it. Never used one since.

Maybe big tattoos are rare. But how big are we talking about? My current char is just under a million MPR. I have a large-ish tattoo (1.6 million) but it's still above my max tattoo level. When am I going to need a bigger one? And, if I start an NCB at any time I won't need a bigger one at all.

Anyhow, keep the RoE as it is. If people are dumb enough to follow the CB Commandments to the letter then it's their fault not how the game is set up.

Now about the N*Bs....how about reviewing those please next? ;)

-- QBJohnnywas

What the heck? No whimsical poll choices? You guys with the big tattoos are in deep dutch!

-- NSFY

Jon's choice

I like preventing the use of the RoE during N*B time.

Fundamentally, using an RoE should be a temporary thing, so why not restrict its usage to users who plan on keeping their characters for the long run?

That lets them gradually adjust all their minions PR to a the level where they want it to be and then they make their run for stardom with a tattoo.

Makes a lot of sense to me.

Better yet, nerf the RoE so that instead of generating more XP, it simply polls more of the normal XP into the wearing minion than into the others. In other words, it would only be useful to multi minion teams.

-- Talion

Get rid of it

Or make it impossible for N*B characters to equip it.
But it is an item that one has to have when starting a N*B character.

If, however, we are able to pay to level our tattoo, then please keep the ROE as I want to use it to attack and use my tattoo to defend. And just pay to keep it at my MTL. That will be the best of all worlds for me. Would almost keep my top spot untouchable.

Hmmmm, Can I change my vote now?


-- QBRanger

Non USD Spenders need it

The ROE is the *only* way for someone to have a multi minion team that isn't an even exp distribution. Not everyone has 10s of millions of $CB to spend on hiring on new minions. A Tank or mage is not going to be very effective with 25% of a teams experience.

-- horseguy001

Emotionally I'd vote to keep it as is, but the wasted tattoo growth is indeed a good argument against the RoE. That's why I voted to remove the RoE.
But, I really hope that someone comes up with a great idea to change the RoE into something more useful; perhaps change it into an AoE, so that it can be combined with a regular tattoo on a team?

-- bartjan

LOL

Considering most NCBs don't get too far, I don't think a tat that someone used from level 20 will get to the "high end" range during N*B. Deleting the RoE and adding BS-Tattoo Artist would kill the choice.

I think the thing that will create more high level tats is having a bonus on tat growth for Tat level vs. MTL. If someone leveled a level 20 tat with a 3m MTL character, it would be almost as if he was forging it up. This would make tattoo leveling services useful again (non-existant right now) as an alternative to BS-Tat artist (or complimentary).

Yes, please, let's make the top even MORE untouchable. While we're at it, take out the RoE and lower the N*B some more past where it should be. Awesome!

-- DreadedTiger [4x20] (-x)

KEEP ROE

I say keep the ROE and get rid of the other tats. just kill off all the other tats and give the owners 50% of NW of their tats, but keep the roe. Also I would say that only NCB and NUB users can use the roe, and I actually think it needs to be beefed up. I used a roe for my NUB and hardly ever missed a battle and I didn't even get half way to the top guys MPR so I am not sure how you are suppose to do it.

-- PeterGriffin

Response to DT

I counted only 23 tattoos over 2M level. So I hope it would be safe to say that a 2M tattoo is a high level tattoo.
You only need 1.24M MPR to get there. Plenty of N*B characters pass this level. However even at this level they are using the ROE since it is easy to pick targets and get a high challenge bonus even at this MPR.

Therefore the ROE is in fact causing the paucity of high level tattoos, if you figure top 25 is high level.

Getting rid of the ROE or banning its use on N*B characters will certainly be a way to get more high level tattoo out there.

For those that do not believe the MTL thing:
Score / PR / MPR: 1,432,077 / 1,272,728 / 1,244,189 Max tattoo: 2,019,463

-- QBRanger

ok, I'm not sure I get this. Seriously, everytime I started NCB, I always play it like this, I have usually a lvl 400-500 k familiar (and increasing every time I started NCB or not, depends if I'm insta-ing it down or not), and I used RoE in the beginning until the max tattoo allow me to use tattoo. This of course will allow me to grow my familiar to a much bigger size than normal (without RoE).

The only reason why there's not much high end tattoo is simply because the max tattoo level, there's no other reason.

RoE is actually helping people to get high-end tattoo.

-- TrueDevil

Your not the normal

True Devil,

Most people I know have used the ROE for well into their 4th month of the N*B. Some laugh when I suggest they use a tattoo about 1M level and start to level it saying they will buy a tattoo later cheaply as they see the insta rates about 25%.

But people are seeing that you simply cannot get a 2M tattoo now and are complaining about it.

If their complaining works and we can raise our tattoos with cash, it really benefits me and likely keeps me in first place for quite a long time.

-- QBRanger

I would like to add to Ranger's post "Response to DT"-- the stats which he is using are from my character The Assassin`s Creed.

-- ScY

Ranger,

Ok that makes sense, I totally forgot about how worthless tattoos these days. ;)

-- TrueDevil

What Ranger Wrote

See subject.

-- Talion

Tats

Actually, while the subjects is on tats...
There are tats for almost anything, going from extra xp to extra fighters.
I'm only missing 1 aditional tat, Tattoo (or Rune) of Wealth.
As you can guess from the name, it would allow you to gain some extra money.
Just like the RoE, it would stay at lvl20 and according to how many minions you have, it would add some more or less cash.
Just some food for thought though...maybe worth of putting it through a poll?

-- {cb1}Linguala

Disallow N*B users from it...

And just increase the N*B. Leave people free to incorporate a tattoo in their strategy.

-- Fanta

Last option won't work

Because high end Tattoos won't grow when small N*B's use them...

-- AdminShade

Why's everyone want to have their cake and eat it too?

"I would rather the RoE be kept the way it is, and a tattoo growth service be added as discussed in the last poll. "

Why can't we just put the N*B rate where it ought to be, and people can either

1) Grow your character at the normal N*B rate, using all your BA, and achieve a maximum effect of 95% of the top MPR with a big tattoo or

2) Grow your character at the N*B rate + RoE, using all your BA, and achieve a maximum effect of 95% of the top MPR + missing tattoo's experience


You choose what you want, MPR or big tattoo. However, this requires *gasp* a N*B fix.

Why in the world anyone would give the option to do as Ranger proposed such an obvious exploit is beyond me

this entire matter has been beyond silly to me personally

get rid of the ToA

Vote Barzoo for President

-- QBOddBird

Don't bring the ToA into this!

Leave my ToA alone....nerf the ToE........;)

-- QBJohnnywas

RoE is Perfect

Why to change the RoE?! Leave it as it is tbh, N*B characters choose either large tat, or maximal MPR growth. Nobody forces them to choose. Anhow as Jon says, it allows for a change in exp dilution, I think this is important. If you did make rid of the RoE then I think an option should exist where you could change the percentile ratios of exp dilution. Such as in the train minion there will be minion names listed and a % box next to them. If there is a 2 minion team the default is 50% : 50%. If you paid 100k you could change it to say 75%: 25%. Get what I mean?

-- Wasp

This game has always been about choice. Grow a tat or grow your exp, take your pick.

-- Tezmac

Fix the bonus on the N*B...
The BA change should never have effected it.
Neither should the OPTION of using an RoE.
Tattoo prices will eventually get high enough that people catch a clue and start growing them...

I think the importance of tattoos should increase as well...

-- AdminQBnovice

It's not the ROE's fault

I think the ROE is fine as it is.

If this is the direction it is going for solving the tat problems I'm inclined to agree with Peter Griffin's idea and think about just getting rid of tatoos all together.

-- sooka

If (MTL.IsChanging == true)

{
RoE.Dispose = true;
}

-- Relic

..Sauce?

Ranger, I think you're missing the point. Yeah, the MTL at 1.2m MPR is about 2m. However, this doesn't mean that having the same tat equipped all the way to 1.2m mpr will generate a 2m level tat. Has anyone tried the math on that?

N*B rate vs. tat growth.

I'm not disagreeing that there wouldn't be more mid range tats if the RoE was taken out. I'm saying that leveling them to high levels is a toughy and would only happen if someone had a alot of cash for all the NCB BA or fully used their NUB.

I still think the growth rate of tats should be in relationship to MTL, at least by a multiplier of some sort.

-- DreadedTiger [4x20] (-x)

Time to chime in..

(1) MTL will always grow faster than your tattoo, no matter when you start doing what or what level the tattoo ever is. This means that if you grow from zero to 1.2m MPR and your MTL is then 2m, your tattoo starting from level 20 will NOT be equal to your MTL -- it will be under it.

(2) The RoE is one of the fairest items in this game. I think I serve as a good example of how to use it well. I kept it throughout my entire NCB, and I am *still* wearing it 4 or 5 months after the NCB expired. It's the only possible way that I could ever gain MPR ground on anyone, as the new BA change makes it such that you can't ever get a BA-usage advantage over anyone at the higher ranks. I lose out on Clan bonus since I'm not in the number 1 clan, so the only recourse I have is to use the RoE.

Frankly, I think it's a good thing that we don't have many massively giant tattoos. The ToE and ToA are way out of hand. Can you imagine how unstoppable a 400 AC + 4m level ToE wall would be?



-- AdminNightStrike

Let it alone!!! Please.

Sure, it degrades the quantity of higher level tats, but that is a choice for the community to make I guess. I don't mean to bring USD into this (I haven't read any of the comments past the 5th one), but I think a lot of people who bought the RoE as the last supporter item before the NS's would be kinda cheesed if they were 'nerfed'...

Also... What about letting the RoE level? That way it would be able to be reinked into something useful. It may seem like a waste, but to offset that, maybe it'd be a free reink, or maybe a 50k fee? Maybe that was a stupid idea... Oh well, just putting it out there.

-- [RX3]Cotillion

an alternative to the RoE?

Give us the option to use XP earned by the whole team on a single minion of our choice. Once trained it stays on that minion - even with unlearning. But first train is open to allow you to even up the XP spread.

This gives you the effect of the RoE but allows teams to grow 'ordinary' tattoos.

-- QBJohnnywas

I voted to disable the RoE during N*B, but the more I think about it the more I believe it should be left the way it is.

Maybe a small nerf is in order, I don't know and will leave such decisions to the people who know how the numbers work, but I imagine the RoE is a temporary thing for most people, as it doesn't give a direct in-battle advantage. So if you use the RoE a lot and then switch to a different tattoo, you'll have to work with a low-level one or hope you get lucky and someone puts a high-level one in the Auctions. On the other hand if you use a different tattoo right from the start and have it grow with your character you may not get as much XP, but your tattoo will be a lot stronger once you get to the same level where the RoE-user switches out his tattoo.

So it's really a matter of choice; grow faster but use a weaker tattoo, or grow slower and get a stronger tattoo. If the two strategies are more or less balanced in terms of how much stronger it makes a character (whether through extra XP or through other tattoo bonuses), then, in my opinion, nothing needs to be changed.

Of course the advantage would still go to the one who uses a RoE and then buys a big tattoo through the auction, but having to rely on the auction to supply a big enough tattoo of the type you need, when you need it, is not the most reliable strategy, so I guess that's allright too.

-- Aargh

RE: Alternate to the RoE?

You mean something like Character XP, instead of idividual minion XP?

-- 48Zach

Yes, character xp!

To minizach:

exactly what I mean. But with it written in that's it's only on the xp you haven't trained yet. Otherwise you'd be able to untrain and create huge minions on a multi minion team...

-- QBJohnnywas

Rid of it

Boost exp gain for NCB and NUB by 20%. Introduce something similar, as it was a nice addition to our little game of rock, paper, scissors, if needed.

-- 8DEOTWP

o_O Really?

I've never used it... so does that mean I should have a rare tattoo in a few years?


-- Levon

RE: Alternate to the RoE?

Doing this removes the 20% bonus to XP that you get that you would then be FORCED to put into a tattoo.

-- AdminNightStrike

Not if Jon fixes the N*B.....;) And, besides, if I could do that while my team wears a ToA or a ToE....that would be much more preferred in my case...

-- QBJohnnywas

What about when you're outside of the bonus time? Are you trying to restrct the game so that the ONLY way to gain ground on the top rranked teams is via an NCB?

-- AdminNightStrike

If you're not running under some kind of bonus you're not likely to gain ground on the top guys unless they slow down...especially if any of them start using a RoE too.......

-- QBJohnnywas

I'm the only one in the top 20 that uses a RoE. The top 5 have no choice, and must use a real tattoo. I can gain ground by earning 15-20% (depending on clan bonus differences) bonus through the RoE. Even if the NCB actually got you to 95% for real, you'd still need to gain that extra 5%. How can you without some other edge? It's just not possible. The RoE is vital to keep things competitive.

-- AdminNightStrike

Not quite right NS, I may not be in the top 20 but I use one, and I know for a fact that Failure uses one as well. But it is one of the only ways for any of us down below the top 5 or so to gain any sort of ground. Especially since the N*B does not bring you anywhere near top 10....

-- DrAcO5676

So it is ok for someone to catch the top characters if the top characters fight as much as, if not more then those below them?

Interesting point of view. I for one would love to be in a position to catch the top players in another game I am playing simply by playing as much as, or less then the top players. A very novel idea.

-- QBRanger

Both you and Failure are currently using a ToA. I use an RoE 100% of the time.

As for your comment, Ranger, if you want to nullify the ground I'm gaining, then use an RoE. I've been able to craft a strat that allows fighting where I'm at without a tattoo. Can you do the same? If so, go for it, and then the #1 position will be impossible to reach, regardless of anything another player can do.

With BA rates the way they are, everyone fights 24/7 BA, and no one has to expend a single BA during money time. So fighting more isn't going to change the ranks at all, since it's impossible to fight more than 100% of the time. Because of the massive PR up in the top 20, fighting with a challenge bonus is only possible on a freak occassion when someone goes on a double-tap spree. That leaves the RoE bonus and the Clan bonus. Anyone not in the number 1 clan is automatically losing ground because of clan bonuses, so that means the RoE is necessary to neutralize that difference and gain more ground.



-- AdminNightStrike

Well then get a clan together to take the top spot. Get Freed with all his NW, you with all your NW, Sut with all his MPR, etc.. and make a clan to take the top spot from BR.

The ROE is certainly poor for N*B characters, the N*B should never have been lowered in the first place.

But upon reading this thread, perhaps the ROE being available for non-N*B character is not a bad idea.

-- QBRanger

Taking the number one clan spot isn't enough. Having a 0.2% advantage over the top ranks will still require several decades of playing 24/7 to overtake the top spot. I don't think I'll still be playing CB2 when I'm 60 years old.

The RoE is not without its cost -- you can't use a tattoo, body armor, cloak, or power shield. I personally feel it takes some very crafty planning to build a character that can be used in such a fashion.

Preventing Roe usage on an NCB would require boosting the NCB rewards by 23%, however then the NCB gets the advantage of both the RoE *AND* tattoo wearing / leveling. That's a better situation? When Jon changed the money rewards for an NUB, he enforced BA-buying just as the NCB change would enforce RoE usage. However, he coupled that with *reducing* the NUB cash rewards. We'd have to have a similar setup, and it'd be all sorts of messed up.


What I'd like to know is this -- where did this notion of not enough tattoos come from in the first place? Last I checked, the tattoo market was trash. How is it that there aren't enough to go around?

-- AdminNightStrike

The comments were about not enough HIGH level tattoos.
I think the N*B should be raised to about 170% and the ROE used only on non N*B characters.
If you want to use a ROE and not level a tattoo, then that is a fair trade off for MPR, but after you developed it during the first 4 months.

-- QBRanger

"The comments were about not enough HIGH level tattoos. "

When did that become an issue? Is it because MTL grows so much faster than actual tattoo level that people are starting to really notice it, or are there a lot of people with tattoos that are way too small to compete?

-- AdminNightStrike

Bingo

"When did that become an issue? Is it because MTL grows so much faster than actual tattoo level that people are starting to really notice it, or are there a lot of people with tattoos that are way too small to compete?"

Unless we want a rescale, or the introduction of CB3, we need a way of the top spot (this isn't persoanl in any way) being reached by others.

If, due to a combination of the BA regen change, the Top Spot holding the Best Clan, and the Bonuses not actually do what they are designed to do, the number one spot is out of competitive reach, then *something* needs to be changed.

Would you all rather it was changed here, or in CB3?

The Top spot should never be an unreachable target. Jon has already shown his dedication for this to be true.


-- AdminQBGentlemanLoser

Another great post by OB

"1) Grow your character at the normal N*B rate, using all your BA, and achieve a maximum effect of 95% of the top MPR with a big tattoo or

2) Grow your character at the N*B rate + RoE, using all your BA, and achieve a maximum effect of 95% of the top MPR + missing tattoo's experience


You choose what you want, MPR or big tattoo."

This is exactly how I see the RoE. ;) And why it should stay.

-- AdminQBGentlemanLoser