Account reset (in Public Record)


FsL-masta August 17 2005 3:31 PM EDT

could someone please tell me why all my chars have been reset??

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] August 17 2005 3:32 PM EDT

I remember seeing unpaid loans threads....Could that be it possibly?

Relic August 17 2005 3:33 PM EDT

Check this thread.

http://www.carnageblender.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001SF6

FsL-masta August 17 2005 3:33 PM EDT

maybe but why does the user mrwuss have all my items??

Relic August 17 2005 3:34 PM EDT

MrWuss is the admin that reset you I believe.

QBRanger August 17 2005 3:35 PM EDT

Eventually they will be auctioned and the proceeds sent to Central Bank.

Sukotto [lookingglas] August 17 2005 4:37 PM EDT

If person A (Masta) scams person B (Achertontus), we will reset A.

You didn't pay your debts. After a reasonable amount of time you were reset. It's pretty straightforward.

QBSefton [Black Cheetah Bazaar] August 17 2005 5:07 PM EDT

Just my opinion, but I think this reset was premature. I think that mr. wuss was too quick to reset. There was obviously considerable NW and PR on all the characters that masta owns, that as soon as he recieved a chat mail from an admin (which he would have picked up today) that stated if you ignore this chatmail you will be reset, you have a debt which has been turned over to admin for resolution. Handle this immediately or you will be reset, something to that effect, Im sure Acher would have his $$$ and masta would still have plenty of gear and good characters.

I think that if there is not a clear process to follow for resetting from non-payment of debt, there should be. I honestly cannot think of a single example of a reset from non-payment in my over 1 year of playing. Plenty for being a jerk, idiot, or profane nussiance, but I mean people give Monty months and months of opportunities to repay way defaulted loans, and masta gets reset after like what 7-10 days after due date?

I thought it was unfair when I saw it, and now that I see masta's reaction, I still think it is unfair. No one may care what I think is fair or unfair, but that is MY opinion none the less. I honestly believe masta is due compensation for unfair process and unfair reset. Again this is my opinion you are welcome to differ.

Chargerz-Back August 17 2005 5:14 PM EDT

^^ agreed

Relic August 17 2005 5:17 PM EDT

Hard call for the admins because as far as I know, no one has asked for a reset of Monty *knock on wood Monty* because of his frivilous debt to income ratio. However, Archertonus did ask for a reset after a couple weeks. I don't know what the best thing to do, probably just handle each dispute on a case by case basis and try to make the best judgement call you can with the information you have.

CoolWater August 17 2005 5:33 PM EDT

I agree that it was a bit too early to be reset. However, it was partly masta fault as well. I be;ieve chatmail was sent to him and at one stage he logged on and chose to ignore the chatmail.

Tezmac August 17 2005 5:37 PM EDT

Do admins send you an email (if you choose to have your address in your profile) if you are facing a pending reset?

Chargerz-Back August 17 2005 5:45 PM EDT

does that mean everyone can check their e-mail while on a break?

Tezmac August 17 2005 6:17 PM EDT

That's not what I was implying Chargerz, it was a honest question.

wldflr August 17 2005 6:18 PM EDT

masta has owed me cash on CB1 before. He always paid off in full. I know of others who have also had masta in their debt and has had no problems. If the admin in question had taken the time to send his own chatmail and had the patience to wait a few days.... this would not have been an issue.

AdminShade August 17 2005 6:20 PM EDT

imo masta should be returned everything he owned.

i know him a bit better and haven't put myself into it but i know he sometimes doesn't have connection but that he always repays his cb bills.

my $0.02 anyway :)

Hope this could help you a bit masta, your a good guy

[Banned]Monty August 17 2005 6:44 PM EDT

I also agree with Sefton.

AdminShade August 17 2005 6:48 PM EDT

and to Tezmac, yes usually for resets due to outstanding debts I do believe admins send an e-mail if not more than 1.

I finally see August 17 2005 7:00 PM EDT

Lol, I wonder how long it will take wuss to close/delete this thread because he was disagreed with.

TheEverblacksky August 17 2005 7:19 PM EDT

masta has never owed money to me..... but the people he has i have seen prompt payments and he had a thriving character going that he was constantly tweaking to see the best fit. now he can't do that, i along with most other people in this post believe masta should be handed back his items, even thought he can't get his character back.

I'm sure he was going to pay it back and just didn't get the chance....... just this was a bit quick on the trigger finger with the reset button.

Just my input tho.

AdminShade August 17 2005 7:23 PM EDT

Vicious, remember admins are only human (at least i am) :)

Maelstrom August 17 2005 7:26 PM EDT

Shade, that's like telling us that there's no Santa Claus! How could you! :*(

[T]Vestax August 17 2005 7:31 PM EDT

I'm not human, I'm a bot.

QBRanger August 17 2005 7:33 PM EDT

Well,

The only recourse that someone has if a loan is not paid off is a reset. There is no mechanism for having admins recover property and/or money owed.

Therefore was not Achertontus well within his right to ask for a reset of masta? It is clearly stated in the FS/WTB the following:

"Regarding "private deals" confirmed here and elsewhere in the forum system:

If 2 people enter into a deal, and it is posted here, and one person backs out, or scams the other person, here is what will happen:

If person A scams person B, we will reset A."

IMO, if 1 day has gone by after the payment was missed, a reset can be requested. I know that is harsh, but the alternative is that we just let things "slide by" like they are with some loans and nothing ever happens.

Achertontus first posted that masta has not paid him on 8/3/05. He waited until 8/15/05 before asking that something be done. I think personally that is more than enough time to give someone to pay up.

AND on 8/14/05 he posted the following;
"He recently logged on and did not reply my CM's
or the e-mails i sended him."

So Achertontus did his due diligence and finally asked for the solution. How long is he, or anyone else owed money, susposed to wait until they can ask for a reset on a defaulted loan/deal?

I personally have no problems with mrwuss resetting masta.

Just because I pay my phone, electric and water bills does not mean I get a pass from the mortgage company.




TheEverblacksky August 17 2005 7:49 PM EDT

and while we're @ at why are we pointing the blame @ mr wuss..... he is simply doing his job, i mean that is what admins do is it not. sorry but it just seemed some of the posts were aimed @ mrwuss.

wldflr August 17 2005 7:54 PM EDT

I would hope an admin would actively try to solve the situation before it got to the point of resetting someone's account. Heaven forbid one of us loses power due to a storm for 4 days! (Yes, we just got our power back on) Or vacation... this is the season!

Bull3t F4c3 August 17 2005 8:18 PM EDT

first of all he never backed out...how do u know, his mother couldve had a fatal car accident or something very sudden came up. I know it had abeena week or so but jeez, masta has had 3 week loans from me and always paid back..archetonus is probably just very paranoid and asked way too quickly...mr wuss (imo) was rushed by every talking about a reset, got too excited and reset him...masta DESERVES everything back, but it will never happen because u know how CB is...

! Love Barney August 17 2005 8:26 PM EDT

it was a 500k loan right?

Vaynard [Fees Dirt Cheap] August 17 2005 8:42 PM EDT

I swear, I really don't get some members of the CB community. Sure, it does stink that masta had his account reset. But seriously, he got a loan, and failed to uphold his end of the agreement. I'm far from being a person that has a real say in it, but it makes me a little mad that people are sitting here and criticizing mrwuss and Achertontus.

Mr Wuss was just doing his job, and provided a requested reset on a clearly violated agreement. Achertontus did his best to wait for an answer and tried to get masta's attention, but to no avail. Maybe he could of waited longer, but he also had the right to request a reset of masta the first day after his loan ended. But he waited, and tried, and asked for help and advice.

Nothing against masta, but he should have known better. If you enter into an agreement and decide to not make it a priority to complete it, expect the consequences. If things come up, either make 3 minutes one day to let your loaner know your problems, or live with it. Don't wait 3 weeks to log in again and ask, 'what happened!?!'

Xiaz on Hiatus August 17 2005 9:24 PM EDT

A request to reset masta, because he hadn't paid his loan, was made to mrwuss by Archertonus.

Since the policy states a reset is proper in this situation, mrwuss agreed. From what was said in the other thread, numerous emails/chatmails were sent to masta. Did he respond? I don't know.

But mrwuss wasn't trigger happy, the request was made (to reset masta), and he saw fit to perform the request.

Sure, it does suck if you can't get on CB for one reason or another, but you can't place blame on anyone. Maybe the policy should be altered?

[T]Vestax August 18 2005 2:30 AM EDT

How about this. Next time a situation like this comes up we will check under community >> active users.

I just checked and masta is not on the list of active users. He just hasn't logged in enough and played enough to even be there. If a person is not an active user then it is impossible for them to either back out of a loan or scam anyone seeing as they are not even playing CB enough to take advantage of the deal. Unless of course they are selling out, which of course requires us to also check their recent transfers.

Not playing CB has the same effect as a reset until they decide to come back. So I myself will reserve the reset option for those that continue to play and break deals at the same time.

Wasp [Demon Forging] August 18 2005 3:22 AM EDT

Why not change the rule... if a person defaults on a loan or debt, then items get removed to pay up... thats much better.

[T]Vestax August 18 2005 4:03 AM EDT

No, that puts us back where we started. We are not in the property recovery business.

AdminG Beee August 18 2005 4:32 AM EDT

The CB community works well because 99% of the policing is done by the community itself with little direct action from the admins.
There is however a policy to deal with issues such as the one that has arisen and when an admin is approached and asked to execute this policy then that's the end of the story. In this case it appears to be a fairly black & white case.

As the man said.
Jonathan, August 15 2005 5:45 PM EDT
what part of the Policy statement in this forum was unclear?

I never like to see anyone from the community reset and it's unfortunate that it was necessary to implement the policy. There is however only one person responsible for this whole sorry saga and that's masta. It's unfortunate, but it's fair.

Mistress Reyna August 18 2005 5:55 AM EDT

OR

from here on out, don't give out loans as you don't know when your loanee is going to take a break, or you loanee's dont know when your loaners are gonna have a bad day. If this is the path loaning, and borrowing is gonna take then let the whole process be a chance situation. If your gonna loan make sure its to sombody who respect, know, and trust, if you don't know em, don't give em money, simple enough

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] August 18 2005 6:28 AM EDT

I agree.

masta should never have taken out a loan if he has problems with connection or expects to be going away soon after. If you are going to take loans or p/p's then you should at least be sure that nothing can stop you from fulfilling that deal, otherwise, don't do it.

Mr Bones August 18 2005 6:50 AM EDT

Could this be worth considering ?

If a player does not log in for say 30 days or does not attempt to repay a loan for 30 days a reset can be requested.

1: Not many will go on holiday for 30 days without telling someone in the game.
2: Most computer problems can be sorted in 30 days.
3: Illness that prevents someone from getting to a computer can be sorted within 30 days.

With a 30 day period everyone knows where they stand.

sssimmo August 18 2005 9:33 AM EDT

The rules are fine as they are. Some people just shoot first and ask questions later.

AngryZac August 18 2005 10:09 AM EDT

The truth of the matter is if anyone here, who so adimately states it was wrong, would have just put their money up when there was talk of masta being reset, this wouldn't be a post. Honestly even I considered putting forth my money to cover the debt, and only didn't because of the comment that he had received chatmail and did not respond, since I don't know Masta or his history, and did not want to risk my own money on someone I believed had a chance to explain their situation but didn't, I didn't offer to help. Had I known Masta, and/or whole heartily believed he'd repay the debt I probably would have sent some money to difuse the situation temporarily.
So with all of you who state this is wrong, and he should be un-reset or given back his equipment, why didn't any of you try to intervene before the reset? The only person I see sticking up for Masta in his last post (after some time was given) was Shade.

QBsutekh137 August 18 2005 10:09 AM EDT

I'm just curious as to why a fellow over on CB1 wasn't reset when I clearly posted about a sale that had gone wrong? It was a USD sale, but we had publicly agreed, and I had several chatmails that showed how the weeks and months kept passing with excuse after excuse.

My appeal got no response from an admin, my item had already been _sold to someone else_, and as far as I know, nothing else was done to the person to whom I gave the item.

And I still have yet to see one penny for an item that back in the day might have commanded $150 to $200 USD.

QBRanger August 18 2005 10:19 AM EDT

Sutekh,

I suspect in your case it was the USD nature of the deal/sale.

There is no way for admins to confirm that you did or did not get the USD. With cb2 transactions, there are ways for admins to check the transfer logs to confirm that the money and/or items have been sent.

With USD, it would be easy to lie and say you send the money or, in your case, did not receive the money. Please dont assume I am saying your lying (Personally I believe you did not get a dime) about not getting the money. But if they believe you, that sets a bad precident. And then others could take advantage of the system.

wldflr August 18 2005 10:38 AM EDT

In Sut's case.. the person who owed him the cash fully admitted he was wrong in not paying Sut back. He also admitted to reselling the item. Still.. Sut got nothing. :( Sut's just to darned nice for his own good sometimes!

AdminJonathan August 18 2005 10:51 AM EDT

Sutekh,

I checked the threads you started in PR on cb1 (only 6, thank goodness) and nothing looks like a "somebody scammed me" subject.

If you posted that it went wrong in the original sale thread ("XXY buying foo from Sutekh") it's quite possible nobody noticed... I know I never bother clicking on those; there's just too many of them.

Ranger is correct that if it's a he said/she said situation, there's little we can do, but we're at least willing to look into it.

AdminJonathan August 18 2005 10:52 AM EDT

Vestax,

if you're not willing to enforce CB policy please chatmail me.

QBRanger August 18 2005 10:53 AM EDT

WOOP

Jon said I was correct.

Hell hath froze!!!!!!

QBsutekh137 August 18 2005 12:14 PM EDT

Correct. I never called for a reset, because that would help no one. I wanted my item, or a similar item, back.

So, my post was more of a "Here's what happened", and the thread was titled something like "I want my ELS back", from about 2-3 months ago (if that).

I don't really care, I just don't understand the reset option. A reset is punitive, and does not help the person who has lost money or an item. If you want to use a reset as an ADDITIONAL punitive measure, fine by me. But first and foremost, I want my stuff back.

Is the repossession option not in place simply because it would be more work to enforce (you can't always get the exact item or cash back, for example)? Or is repossession a valid admin route that just isn't used all that often?

Tezmac August 18 2005 12:20 PM EDT

"Or is repossession a valid admin route that just isn't used all that often?"

Seems to be valid in special situations for special people.

AdminJonathan August 18 2005 12:48 PM EDT

The only time I can remember sanctioning a recovery effort was with Max, because GB convinced me that as a full admin, Max was something of a special case. (If you can't trust the admins, who can you trust?)

It's quite possible there were one or two other exceptions years ago on CB1 but none are coming to mind atm. I think we've been pretty consistent on this.

You're right that resetting (or banning) doesn't help the guy who got scammed, but CB's always been very up-front about this: we don't provide incentives that encourage stupid behavior no matter how tempting it is. My impression is that the scam rate is FAR lower on CB than in similar games, so I claim success. :)

Relic August 18 2005 12:52 PM EDT

The scam rate is quite low on CB and I would venture to say that almost all deals are squarely dealt with and handled appropriately by admins if the need arises. A lot of games out there just say "That is just bad luck. Don't be so gullible next time." or something to that effect.

Nixon Jibfest August 18 2005 2:00 PM EDT

I think wuss did the right thing, and think it was good that the admins paid off Max's debt because as an admin, he represented Jon & CB.

I have a few question:

1. Once reset, is the player no longer obligated to pay back the loan?
2. How come Max wasn't reset?

AdminJonathan August 18 2005 2:21 PM EDT

1) correct
2) oversight? he's reset now

Nixon Jibfest August 18 2005 2:28 PM EDT

oops... i didn't mean to get him reset. I thought a reset had to be requested by someone that he owed money to.

To follow up on #1, though, could someone who is heavily in debt request to be reset if s/he cannot repay the debt(s). I guess that person can just not repay on purpose as well and just wait to be reset. I'm thinking that someone could take advantage of this policy.

bartjan August 18 2005 2:52 PM EDT

In order to take advantage of this policy in a way you suggest, the money/items have to go to a third (often not third at all) party. It's usually not hard to track that.

QBBarzooMonkey August 18 2005 2:54 PM EDT

Carnage Blender bankruptcy court! What a novel idea :P

Grim Reaper August 18 2005 6:53 PM EDT

I thought when you go bankrupt you still have to pay your debts, just you get lower interest rates or none at all and get to pay back in a longer period of time.

Special J August 18 2005 7:31 PM EDT

I have been away for a couple days, but here is My point.


He was reset after plenty of time was given, I ask this of masta, you failed to pay a loan, what did you expect?

If a higher admin wants to change the situation the items are held in my admin account, there is a very large named FF and another item which does not come to mind while I am typing this. Among odds and ends of leather armour.

If G_Beee, bart of Jon wish to change what I have done then I will of course oblige the request.

Otherwise, I am sorry you failed to complete your promise and I followed the rules set forth.

Good day.

sssimmo August 18 2005 9:53 PM EDT

Shoot first, ask questions later refers to a 'troll' remark made about someone else in the community. You were wrong in that situation, which can be forgiven, but you hold a position which requires responsibility and there is no need for childish, disrespectful remarks.

Special J August 18 2005 10:00 PM EDT

sssimmo,

I fail to see any childish remarks and I fail to see how you are involved in the situation other than someone in the peanut gallery.

This thread is locked now, if the parties who are involved in the situation wish to discuss the actions taken then use the CM function, or PM function in chat.

Special J August 18 2005 10:12 PM EDT

And to go further on the not giving enough time, he didn't have access, ect.

The complaint was made on,
--Achertontus, August 3 2005 9:26 AM EDT

During the thread I made this post,

Last login at August 9 2005 6:18 PM EDT. (masta's account)

--mrwuss, August 14 2005 3:13 PM EDT

and the issue was completed on the 15th.

He was able to login the 9th, yet gave no answer to the complaint, the 15th he was reset and the debt was considered gone.


The items were moved to my admin account, they are not being used by me and I am sure this has been checked by players out to wrap the noose around my throat.

There are rules, which do not state "unless this is a good person, ect", as soon as the rules are changed for one person, another person will complain when they are not changed again...and again...and again.

The issue is closed unless a higher admin wishes to take the problem on their shoulders.

Every attempt was taken to be sure the end action was proper. And by the rules set forth, it was.
This thread is closed to new posts.