My disappointment in the CB community (in Off-topic)
March 1 2009 2:05 AM EST
Zenai recently held a very generous contest offering Supporterships, the items along with the Supporterships, full armor sets for the non-supporters, and several million CBD to help them along; all that was asked for the community to participate in this contest to win these players Supporterships was to fight in or against his clan and compete to make the most negative CPs.
Basically put, 3 periods of 24 hours where you take some reduced rewards in exchange for helping the new players of CB.
As far as I can tell, my clan was the ONLY ONE that participated. You guys had a chance to help, and did absolutely nothing. We had no competition, and I've talked about it with Hakai - I hardly had any fun because I wasn't competing at all, and she also was disappointed in the lack of participation.
Zenai went to a LOT of trouble to get together the stuff for this contest. Asking for donations, donating tons himself, organizing and asking for volunteers; and only A FEW people participated, either by fighting his clan or joining it.
I expected more. A lot more, even. Particularly from a contest where you had the opportunity to do something that is VITAL to this community, something that is pushed constantly, helping out non-supporters/new members and doing something that could potentially retain more members.
TL;DR = I'm disappointed in this community, because I thought I would see a LOT more from it than I have. :(
Thanks to those of you who did participate, however: I have a much greater respect for many of you for the part you played in what was a very noble cause.
Sorry, but I don't see much of a point for this kind of event. A NUB can easily making 30-60 mill over its period which it can use to buy supportership along with plenty of amour and weapons, or a huge tattoo, or an extra minion. The only reason I can think of for buying it for them is at the beginning when they have tons of BA and slow income. However, when I start an NCB, I find that my target list switches so much that I don't even use my favorites. On top of this, I think it is to early to be giving them supportership since they are most likely to quit in the beginning because its not their type of game. I think it is important to get more people into the game and keep them interested, but I don't think this is the best way.
March 1 2009 2:24 AM EST
You should have looked at their join dates before you bothered posting. I chose the players for our clan to support, and they are all dedicated members of CB.
I have to agree. I bought all my BA thinking this was going to be a very competitive contest. I even saved up 1200 BA for the first day of the contest thinking that I'd need the competitive edge.
Turns out, I didn't even need to spend all 24 hours worth of my BA to win. In fact, I could have single handedly won the contest without any help from my clan members at all.
Zenai spent weeks prior to this contest working his butt off to get this together. He stayed up late, spent his OWN USD on it, spent millions of CBD, and reached out to many members for help.
Now, I know some of you say, "But why do we need to help new players? They already get plenty of money..."
Well. Our clan chose to sponsor members who had been here far past their NUB and still did not have supportership. We chose people that log in almost every day, with high level fighters. We chose people that deserved that benefit of a favorites list. And yeah, they probably could have bought their own supportership. They could have saved, took out a loan or whatever. But they didn't. For whatever reason, they did not think it worth the effort.
Ryuzaki A member of Carnage Blender since October 29, 2007.
Huitzilopochtli A member of Carnage Blender since August 2, 2008.
AbbathorX A member of Carnage Blender since August 19, 2007.
For anyone that has a favorites list, we all know the worth of it. But they've never had the chance to compare having that favorites list to not having one. They don't even know they're missing out most likely.
Also, I would like to add that I do realize some people from the clans did participate. But the effort was halfhearted.
Anyway, I am not even sure if I'm making sense anymore. I am just sorry to see the lack of appreciation.
this does strike me as slightly contradictory...
the community inspired this, the community donated, and the community at the very least had the intent to participate...
I'll admit I in specific avoided this contest because of what appeared to be a complicated set of rules. I'm in the middle of the most frantic period I've experienced since I was a teenager battling evil with a hip holster full of holy.
I just wanted to chime in to encourage you not to take a negative tone about things, this is a situation where being positive and encouraging is going to be much more effective than beating us about the face and neck with the fruits of our apathy.
"You should have looked at their join dates before you bothered posting. I chose the players for our clan to support, and they are all dedicated members of CB."
That is my point. Once they are dedicated enough to CB2 they will have enough to get supportership. I am in 8/10 and make around 200k a day and I only use BA from regen.
March 1 2009 2:33 AM EST
They've been playing longer than YOU, Elite.
March 1 2009 2:38 AM EST
I avoided it because I got screwed on the last supportership contest.
March 1 2009 2:38 AM EST
i kinda dont understand the point of the contest... from what i see isnt this contest just to have fun?
the money and suppotership and items are already there... you could very well just give the items directly to the needy without this contest...
I would assume, lost, that the point of the contest was to make the prize-awarding a lot more fun instead of just a simple handout. A little competition makes things all the more enjoyable. It's a game, afterall.
I think that the biggest detractor was a lack of understanding. If you needed people to join the target clan, for instance, I could easily have done that as I'm not currently in a clan. I could put a few chars in there that would spread the levels around.
i would probably have participated more if i actually had a DECENT target in Zenai's clan to fight with.
But yes i do very much feel bad that for Zenai's effort he got next to no participation in his contest but think about the fact that there aren't a lot of high end players considering CB as a whole and when you are fighting a clan with really only high end characters active there is not a lot the majority can do about it.
What i am saying is you, while you are correct in your beliefs both Hakai and OB you really need to look at the whole before passing judgement.
March 1 2009 2:45 AM EST
Its just this kind of thing that really gets me....before people say things they should look at the full reasoning for it. I did what I did not because I wanted to make things worse for CB. I did it because I knew the people that each Clan picks wouldn't be taken lightly and therefor help the Community in the long run. Retention right now is CBs biggest problem why not retain the people that seem to want to stay? Another big reason is people are getting bored with CB I hear it all the time. So I say why not make something interesting and helpful to the Community in more than one way.
It takes time for people to see the good in things. I have to admit for all of the work that Hakai and Myself and many others put into this Contest the turn out was lousy......just to spice it up I offered the Participating Clans a LOT of money for Placing. The thing I will refuse to do however is to TARNISH the IDEA/SPIRIT of the Contests in the first Place and that was to do something Good for Someone besides myself. That is why the people who Participated did and I will not take that away from them with the semantics of futile or foolish arguments. Maybe one day other people will see the same thing I do and actually get of their pedestals and do something themselves.
CB is worth saving!
I think you did a fine job, and the results were good. I'm glad you're trying to help out the site, and even with a small turnout, your contest will have lasting results.
I think that maybe we can all learn from this how to better garner support the next time around, and how to get the word out about jsut what exactly people need to be doing.
March 1 2009 2:56 AM EST
I'm sorry for turning this into an argument. I was just very disappointed in the turnout, and in the mass excuses presented at the very thought that everyone did not help. Clearly everyone in the community had a very good reason for participating or not.
Maybe next time will be better, and we can just learn from this, like NS said.
I chose not to participate because of the rules.
From what I got out of the rules, you were asking people to lose fights?
These were the rules given in the sign-up thread for the contest. Now, someone plese tell me what is so confusing about them so next time we can make them more clear:
1. This is a Free for all! All clans may join if you so wish it simply post which day you wish to compete and you will be counted. Signups will end Sunday the 22nd. The Contest will Start Monday the 23rd.
2. Your Job will be simple get as many Negative CPs as you can in a 24 hour period against my Clan.
3. Clans must CM me with the Person that they wish to aid in getting a Supportership.
March 1 2009 3:27 AM EST
"2. Your Job will be simple get as many Negative CPs as you can in a 24 hour period against my Clan. "
I get Negative CPs when I attack some and lose, or someone attacks me and wins. This is where (i think) the crux of the misunderstanding lay.
Since the only way to actively 'acquire' negative clan points is by attacking and losing.
Rephrasing it to:
"Your job will be simple. Take as many clan points as you can from my Clan in a 24 hour period."
This has the exact same message yet has less inherent confusion.
Ah. Yes, I see now how that can be confusing. : /
Thanks, Loch ^_^
Fine, I only read the first line or so, then lost interest, even more after I read I could attack only between x time and x time and again between x time and x time and again between x time and x time.
Run it for a week or a solid 3 day period right after clan points begin so that you will have a starting/finishing point that makes sense.
I know you spent a lot of time putting it together. And for that I applaud you.
No one asked any of you to go thru so much trouble to help other players. You did it of your own free will. But yet you are mad cause everyone else also exercised their free will and didn't participate?
I'm sure that the people that got the rewards were appreciative.
Don't take it so personally, you aren't the only ones to have ever helped anyone out. Simplify the contest next time.
March 1 2009 3:45 AM EST
If you do ever run a week long version, I'd be happy to be a target again~
March 1 2009 3:48 AM EST
Mikel - in explanation, Z ran a similar contest several weeks ago and the clan disbanded before a week was up due to the mass negative CPs. As a result, he came up with the 24 hour format.
Well. Your "run it for a solid week or a solid 3 days" plan has already been done
. And it turned out badly. We ran this same contest last month with a huge turnout for participants. And before the week was over, the clan auto-disbanded. Zenai tried to get that problem fixed by talking to Admins, but was unable to.
And this time the clans even got large rewards for participating. So I really did expect more of a turnout. *shrug*
3 days should be enough time then right?
or ask another clan to help absorb those points so that it is not all on one clan.
Wait...I don't get why our "1 day at a time" solution doesn't work.
Clans had the choice to participate in all 3 days, or just 1 or 2. I thought that was a fine solution to the disbanding problem. It takes less effort...
March 1 2009 4:00 AM EST
3 days was a thought but Since deifeln said he had 3 Supporterships to Sponsor and ppl had already volunteered to change their names to do so it just kinda fell into place to have 3 separate contests. Last time I went for a week and by the third day it was auto dis-banded for -CPs, I would think a 48 hour period of time would be more reasonable. Although I do think this will still rely on the participants. If there is a bunch of hardcore players in each Clan that is Attacking then the Clan could get disbanded in the first 24 hours.
March 1 2009 4:01 AM EST
I would have played but I honestly read it as fighting and losing... and I was like nah my clan needs me -.-j
March 1 2009 5:25 AM EST
I would have gladly participated. However, I'm running an NCB and looking to end up with a decent MPR. If I took days off here and there then I might as well not bother spending a large sum of money. I'm already behind schedule so cannot afford any more time. Seems like a great contest. I wouldn't mind taking lower rewards for a few days but at this crucial time I can't afford it. Especially since there are some really great NCB's around my level that are also doing pretty well, I gotta try and keep up with them lol
March 1 2009 6:47 AM EST
You could have someone take a screenshot on the hour (Find someone from elsewhere on the planet for the ties you sleep), and don't worry about the clan being disbanded - if it is, the contest ends and you refer to the last screenshot.
"and only A FEW people participated, either by fighting his clan or joining it."
I offered to be a target and was told I would be contacted nearer the time of the contest. As no one did this I assumed they had enough.
March 1 2009 8:07 AM EST
Well OB, two things...one, I can't MAKE people in DAS fight in this supportership, and two, kind of hard for anyone to compete when Syndicate has 3 people on 24/7 spending all of their BA...the 1200 BA for those two to start was good as well...Seriously OB, if you were even "thinking" in the slightest that you were going to participate, then you take one look at the Raw scores and see that Syndicate as over -3000 while everyone else is seemingly getting started...Would you risk the neg rewards for your character as well? Prolly not, and either way you suck! :)
March 1 2009 9:19 AM EST
Other thing, LOng Beach lost Kliktu, and we had more 2 guys inactive.
Also, this 3 separate days thing was really hard to me, evytime i logged the contest were already at the end.
( coz timezone diference i am in Brazil) so i could not even try.
Would really be lot better if next contest be 1 only that lasts 3 days, and not 1 crazy 24 hours run, a lot of people would participate more.
anyway, thats my point of view.
March 1 2009 10:04 AM EST
basically in a nutshell, CB is nothing what it used to be, it basically sucks now, and its not really anyones fault, there is no blame finger to be pointed, it just not making people happy anymore.
March 1 2009 10:51 AM EST
I didn't even read the contest thread.
So, are you saying I have to read every single post in the game in case there is something about the CB community I need to support?
Sorry, that ain't gonna happen, Hoss. Certainly not if it has anything to do with clans. I think clans are stupid, and my opinion on the matter holds just as much weight as anyone else. To thine own self be true, you know?
contests are like this. you think you have a great idea that will be fun for all and sometimes it turns out that way. some times it does not though. you can either look at ways to make it better or not do contests(of course i always look at most issues as what can i do to change rather than trying to change other people).
with this being said, i will give the example of my monthly trivia contest. i think that i will probably quit doing it after this month as only six people participated in february. i think that the problem with the trivia contest is people forget or can't play everyday.
in that case an average score per month would work much better, as someone suggested early in the first contest. the problem with that is that the average stat is not one that carries over from month to month on the trivia site. that would make things harder for me and i am just not willing to do the extra record-keeping at this time. maybe someone else will be.
the reason i posted all of this is basically it is much more productive, even if ya decide to say to heck with running contests, to look at what you could do to change the outcome rather than just saying everyone else sucks! it also empowers you a little rather than throwing up your arms and pointing the finger at others.
Firstly i do agree with elites earlier comment, if people haven't been able to use there nub efficiently enough to fund the supportership, and after a long period have failed to pay for it by any other means they probably don't play that intensively.
Secondly i am not sure we need so many of these contests, they are a nice gift for the recipient of the reward but if you make them happen so frequently they seem less impressive.
In addition to these opinions i would like to add that calling out the entire cb public seems a little narrow minded. I am probably one of the few people that this should be aimed at as i actually left if up to my clan members to decide if they wanted to participate, which as it is an all or nothing kinda thing i basically said "no" on reflection. But i would not have been aware of this contest this time round had Hakai not asked me out our participation, I no longer have time to check all these things and read all contests and posts.
I am also not sure if you could claim these contests are "vital". Are these people going to leave the game if you don't give them supportership? By not doing this are less people going to start playing? The community is fine, and is one of the reasons many people play.
Please bare in mind that these are my opinions, not me stating facts, i know some people feel strongly about this but i feel that this could alienate people unnecessarily.
March 1 2009 11:50 AM EST
Ernest - I do, in fact, feel that it is vital to the community to do things to help out/retain members. We are losing players, not gaining them.
Dinh - of course you can't MAKE anyone fight. But we pushed it in our clan, and people stepped up to do it. And those negative CP scores were much smaller than they could have been - none of us burnt all of our BA on the Armor Fiend clan because after so many negative CPs, we had no reason to continue doing so and we burnt the rest normally. No competition. Your clan particularly would have been quite competitive, as it has more members than ours. (Besides, isn't DAS the champion clan of the new players? Don't I recall that we veterans are the evil overlords trying to push newbies down, and so shouldn't your clan have been joining in to stop us? ~_^)
This wasn't pointed at any one person, remember - it's a general disappointment in participation, as this is the sort of thing if ANYTHING that I would expect to garner support.
But as I said earlier, clearly everyone on CB had an excellent reason for not participating, and I appreciate that all of you considered it. Perhaps next time a contest like this is run, those of us who do run contests can learn from our mistakes and make them better.
March 1 2009 11:58 AM EST
Sutekh - like I said, this wasn't pointed at any given person. If you didn't read the thread, then of course you couldn't participate; on the other hand, something tells me that not everyone in the CB community didn't read the thread.
And I totally understand that your personal stand against clans is important enough that it would stop you from doing anything to help or support anyone else should it involve you making the noble sacrifice of being in a clan (what? You're in one already? Good god, where are your standards) and thus I certainly can't fault you for that logic. Please, forgive me, and may I never again suggest such a drastic measure as involving yourself in the system you hate so vehemently in order to help another out.
March 1 2009 12:12 PM EST
Nice straw man -- I hate clans, so therefore I don't support or help anyone else...
Wow, talk about disappointment.
March 1 2009 12:13 PM EST
Hey man, you're the one brought up "I hate clans, so why would I get involved?"
I'm just as disappointed in your attitude as you are in my post.
March 1 2009 12:27 PM EST
well i participated but its kinda hard when one person creates such a big lead it is near impossible to catch up. and the first day there was no one on the clan low enough for most to kill. So when you see some one start the contest with a 3000 point lead already it is a why bother attitude then. You just unwitingling applied a slaughter rule deifelin and killed it for most
March 1 2009 12:33 PM EST
I do appreciate you competing, too, Thak. :) Unfortunately, you're right - a single individual didn't really have much of a chance. That's why it was supposed to be for clans of people working together to compete.
March 1 2009 12:44 PM EST
I never said I was disappointed in your post (if I did, I would like for you to point out where it was stated or even inferred). I only showed disappointment when you started utilizing sophomoric argumentation styles against me (strawman usage). You are basically insulting me using a logical fallacy.
Even if it were any of your business how much I do or don't do for the community (which it isn't), saying my dislike of clans has anything to do with that is disingenuous at best. One has nothing to do with the other, overall. My dislike of clans might affect a decision here and there, but it is in no way related to general feeling about Carnage Blender.
And I am in a singleton clan simply because I have to be to remain even remotely competitive nearer the top of the MPR ladder. That is, in fact, one of the most pointed reasons I dislike clans -- they are samey yet necessary (in my opinion). The reduces choice and reduces fun (again, for me -- I am not speaking for anyone else, that's why my clan only has one member).
If you are going to make blanket statements concerning disappointment, don't act all defensive and bothered when someone tries to throw that blanket off.
March 1 2009 12:52 PM EST
Are you freaking kidding me? I paraphrased you, and that's just slightly different than building a logical fallacy (yes, I understand just fine what a 'strawman argument' is.) Here, this time I'll quote you:
"Sorry, that ain't gonna happen, Hoss. Certainly not if it has anything to do with clans. I think clans are stupid"
Please, by all means, clarify how that does not mean what I've been saying.
And I quite honestly don't give a rat's behind whether you personally do or do not do anything for the community. Not a thing in this whole damn thread was directed at you personally until you popped in saying "I didn't read the thread and besides I have free will and hate clans so (blah blah blah Hoss blah.)" But when you want to tell me that I'm somehow wrong in expressing my disappointment in the community - it's there - in a public forum - I can do that - and that of all things part of your reasoning (I assume it is part of your reasoning and you didn't just throw it in there to make your post longer) is that you hate clans? I might just have something to say in response to that.
I can make my damn blanket statement about being disappointed, and I don't care if you feel all defensive because you weren't part of it. There is nothing wrong with me posting that disappointment in these forums, I have every right to do that. Now go throw your red herrings (see what I did there?) around elsewhere, because this is NOT what the thread is about.
March 1 2009 12:57 PM EST
"Sorry, that ain't gonna happen, Hoss. Certainly not if it has anything to do with clans. I think clans are stupid"
Means: I am not going to be sure to read every contest post, and will probably give least priority to anything involving clans if I the event I do scan the content.
Doesn't Mean: I hate clans, so that means I will not help the community when it comes to anything clan-related (or otherwise).
I apologize if my initial post didn't come off the way I intended, and I will not interrupt what you are attempting to convey again.
March 1 2009 1:01 PM EST
I appreciate that clarification and the gesture offered, and apologize myself for getting in an argument over what was a misinterpretation from the start. I'm just more than a little riled up right now.
March 1 2009 1:03 PM EST
I think it is time to take a few minutes to relax.
Something I do not do enough.
Your attacks on Sut are completely unwarranted.
It is very well known by the community how he feels about Clans and I never in a million years would have expected him to participate in or even read a clan contest thread.
To me it was obvious that he was referring to reading a post about a CLAN contest, however, assumption cause quite a lot of disagreements in these forums.
And Sut does plenty for the game, just not in the area of clans.
So let us just chalk it up to a minor, yes minor misunderstanding and please let us move on.
Not all contests are successful. This one was not. Happens. I understand your venting, but it is time to cool it down a few notches.
Perhaps the next contest can be better explained as I also read about GETTING negative clan points and quickly moved on.
March 1 2009 1:09 PM EST
I also hope subsequent contests are successful, and appreciate all that contest-runners do. It would have helped for me to make that clear up front, too.
I totally knew this was coming after the first day of the the contest...
On one hand, the effort put forth by those organizing and funding the contest was immense... Furthermore, their cause was a good one, even if some can't see it that way. So their disappointment in the end result is far from misplaced.
On the other hand, there were many factors leading to non-participation... Some just didn't read the threas, others were confused and put off by it, and others were simply unable to participate for one reason or another (due to lack of time, forging, and other various reasons). These all lead to an extremely one-sided competition, at which point it was very discouraging to other players to join... Basically, if you couldn't get your whole clan on board, you stood no chance in competing with the clan that was created *solely* for this competition, and I can very well understand those that are unwilling to put forth an effort they are already positive will be a futile one before they even start...
On the third hand (sticking out of the shoulder of this ugly deformed issue), there are avenues for improvement. Clarification of the contest thread has already been covered, so I won't go there. But perhaps some friendly taunting and provocation of other top clans to prove themselves to be the best may be in line... After all, clan rankings are easy to skew via alliances and the power of the chars involved with the clan- this would be a chance for each and every clan to show their metal in an open-to-all clan vs. clan vs. clan competition!
All in all, I'd advise just taking this thread as what it is, an angry rant... I complain about the medical system on a regular basis, and I would expect to be able to do so in a room full of the best doctors from all specialties without a single one of them taking offense to it. Just because I'm disappointed with the system as a whole doesn't mean that all involved in the system are at fault.
In other words, know when it's not you, and just let someone vent... By making an argument out of what was originally just a complaint (albeit, a pointed one), we are going against everything this contest was meant to bring out of the community.
March 1 2009 10:13 PM EST
This for me and the people that helped me run this contest has been a learning experience for the better. I hope that in the future the contests that we jointly put together will be more successful with the suggestions that have been given. We are always open to new ideas and suggestions so if you have any please feel free to CM us at any time! (WE include: Myself, Hakai, OB, and Darkfury hopefully this will only become a larger panel in time :D) With all of your help we can make things a lot better and more fun for everyone Thankyou!
Something is seriously wrong with this thread......
Sutekh and OB argued for about 3 posts each before shaking hands and apologizing, each admitting to some fault. Ranger contributed nothing other than successfully calming the situation and restoring peace (the nerve!). Mikel's posts were taken as constructive criticism, and the various purely-negative posters stopped after about 2 posts each.
What was supposed to be an out-and-out flame war spanning 200+ posts and mud slinging from all sides instead turned into a positive learning experience for all involved.............
Is this CB3? If so, I'm a little scared........
March 2 2009 2:20 AM EST
kind of wondering why you didn't take the Blue Pill eh NS?
I find your lack of faith disturbing...
But yeah, again I point to the dying community and remind us that the solution to CB is getting more players. :D
I think there should be a massive referral contest. That would be fun.
I've stated several times, though admittedly only in chat, that I would give a free supporter item purchase to anyone who refers 5 people that become supporters.
I will put up a news release that tells everyone.
March 2 2009 7:34 AM EST
awh... i only invited 2 people who became supporters =x only alisa still plays though lol
I really think it was the rules that confused people. Or me, anyway. Unless my memory is rather dulled, I believe that more people participated in the previous supportership contest? Just one week of taking away as many CPs as possible?
I think that would have confused far less people, and gotten them involved in this (noble) effort.
March 2 2009 8:06 AM EST
ok this thread seem to be more popular than the original contest...so i'll write a little bit on it. First i did not participate in the contest because the thread explaining the rule was too long and too complicated,and prizes were not detailed enough. Also i feel that supportership is kinda cheap, so there is no need to ''give'' em away. Also, why would i participate in a contest where someone else win something out of my actions ? to help a new player? I did not wait for a supportership contest before getting my supportership but i think its still a good idea. Was this contest there to help CB survive by buying supportership to Jon ? Anyway i'll probably participate in the next one(although i am not to sure on the how-to...) so i'll get reduce rewards in exchange for helping the new players of CB...
On a side note, I'm sorry for not participating in this as much as I should have. :(
March 2 2009 9:12 AM EST
In response to SHD.
Supportership = 11 usd = 4.88M CB2 at 2.25 per.
Any NUB can make that in the first couple weeks, month maximum playing and using most of his/her/its BA.
Supportership should not be hard if one really wants it, given the massive money a NUB makes.
Just my thoughts.
March 2 2009 9:15 AM EST
Make the rules simpler to understand and I will try to participate!
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