Tattoo Artist. Time for another change? (in General)

Wasp May 4 2009 11:16 AM EDT

Can the tattoo artist be changed back to the way it was. The problem is, every time someone makes a change another tattoo is destroyed. Soon the only ones left are the ones people are using. Not enough base ones are being spawned. There are only 67 EF's left.

Can something be done to correct this. Players trying out different strats are going to start having problems. It's not the money involved, but the availability. If Ranger didn't bail me out, I'd still be waiting (Still am waiting). New players would have probably become quite bored just waiting in order to change their strat.

Bored now.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] May 4 2009 11:20 AM EDT

if we are going to keep it the way it is, spawn tattoo change tokes or somesuch so that when someone is wanting to change a tattoo it doesn't remove from the same pool as people just getting started and trying to find their first tattoo and thus decreasing availability while increasing price.

Neo Japan May 4 2009 11:25 AM EDT

maybe when you change your tat at the artist, the one "destroyed" should show up in auctions as a base tat.

AdminShade May 4 2009 11:27 AM EDT

imo there are still more tattoos generated than people wanting to use them for inking.

Otherwise base tattoos would already have gone way up in price.

Mesoshort May 4 2009 11:28 AM EDT

Agreed, I just paid 650K for a BASE tattoo. That seems ridiculously high. Not to mention the blunder I made when I thought that you get to choose the type you change it to, not the consumed type, so I had to buy two... (Geh.) Why not make the price comparable to what the base are sold for now, or maybe so much per thousand level of the tattoo. Everyone knows I'm not a math person, I'll leave the formula to someone that knows what they are doing! ;D I have a feeling this has been brought up before though.

AdminTal Destra May 4 2009 11:29 AM EDT

simple solution...

don't make tattoos changeable, make them static

QBRanger May 4 2009 11:31 AM EDT

I have agreed with Wasp ever since the artist was changed to its current state.

AdminShade May 4 2009 11:38 AM EDT

Not to mention the blunder I made when I thought that you get to choose the type you change it to, not the consumed type, so I had to buy two...

That's not accountable for the possible faulty tattoo artist.

Perhaps there could be a way of 1 out of every 5 consumed tattoos coming back into auctions?

Cube May 4 2009 11:46 AM EDT

If you really think it's necessary, it's simpler to boost the spawn rate. I think the new system makes more sense.

However, I'm pretty sure prices have been pretty stable. You're all just used to getting tattoos for cheap prices, and changing instantaneously.

Wasp May 4 2009 11:52 AM EDT

Price. I care not for money. It's availability I'm talking about. That and time. The time it takes to find one. There not readily available. Maybe increasing the spawn rates for base tattoos would help.

Daz May 4 2009 12:00 PM EDT

I don't know. I've paid lower than I thought I should and only slightly higher than I thought I should in order to change my tat. The only thing that really made a difference to me was the amount of time I had to wait. I had to wait (at all times) much longer than I thought was really necessary...

Cube May 4 2009 12:08 PM EDT

In my opinion, the old system was too easy to switch back and forth for something that makes such a huge difference in how your character fights.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] May 4 2009 12:47 PM EDT

"In my opinion, the old system was too easy to switch back and forth for something that makes such a huge difference in how your character fights."

then put a time limit on it, charge usd or increase the old price. there are other ways to limit it rather than what was implemented.

Lord Bob May 4 2009 12:48 PM EDT

"Agreed, I just paid 650K for a BASE tattoo. That seems ridiculously high."

Funny, I find that ridiculously cheap.

QBRanger May 4 2009 12:55 PM EDT

Good idea Dude,

One change every week.

QBRanger May 4 2009 1:08 PM EDT

Yes, 650k at times can seem very cheap.

If you can find one you need that is.

Goodfish May 4 2009 1:11 PM EDT

Hals are only expensive because they are overpowered.

QBRanger May 4 2009 1:21 PM EDT

I guess SF and RBFs are overpowered as well.

Thak May 4 2009 1:29 PM EDT

I dont see a need for this.

It will screw up the economy more since people would just buy cheaper base tats and transform them into more expensive one. Then if they are spawned into the auction as a suggestion was made they would just by it back and could use the artist again. Then just loop the cycle. Then you have a big old economic mess with tha tattoos.

Now if your were only able to use the artist once a week or longer(give your ink work time to heal) this would curb the flaw a bit listed above.

Colonel Custard [The Knighthood] May 4 2009 1:29 PM EDT

I think SFs and RoBFs are overpowered if you're comparing them to things like, say, the ToA, the ToE, the RoE, the Jig. Remember Jiraiya's top 15 tats contest? There were 3 RoS, 3 RoBF, 3 SFs, and 3 Hals, while there were only 1 Jig, 1 ToA, 1 IF, and none of anything else.

But are SFs and RoBFs as overpowered as the Hal? That's the real question. The Hal is clearly stronger than any other minion is intended to be. Are SFs and RoBFs stronger than minions, stronger than tattoos are supposed to be, or are they just right, while the problem lies in the ToA and ToE being useless?

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] May 4 2009 1:36 PM EDT

I too dislike the new system but I agree with cube, the old system gave too much advantage to those with almost unlimited cash. I don't see the point of lesser tattoos, ditch them and double tattoo spawns.

Sickone May 4 2009 1:40 PM EDT

Upgrade all existing lessers into regulars, remove lessers, double the spawn rates AND add tattoos to the black market at... hmmm... 40 votes a piece ?

Demigod May 4 2009 1:44 PM EDT

"I don't see the point of lesser tattoos"


Admindudemus [jabberwocky] May 4 2009 1:47 PM EDT

lessers are tournament tats and that is all they should be. if we get rid of lessers then tourney characters would have to compete with everyone else and burn a tat per tourney allowing their use.

QBRanger May 4 2009 1:50 PM EDT

Well certainly the ToE is useless for 99% of CB.

Perhaps if it lowered GA damage done by physical means it may get some use back.

The ToA is useful, one HAS to be a tank to use it. No other tattoo requires you choose tank or mage or other to use it. In addition, it competes with tanks using a TSA and EC. The TSA with its regeneration power AND strength addition IMO makes up for the ToA. Letting you use a different tattoo with more benefits.

The HF is very nice, however once you get to melee rounds, it is not great. Attacking every other round with a huge penalty. I do believe its PTH is too high for its level though.

However, nothing in the current system makes those with more money not have an advantage over those with less.

In fact, the current system makes it harder for those with less money to change their tattoo and try new strategies. Especially if those with money keep buying up the base/near base tattoos.

Those with unlimited cash could try different tattoos the old way, but now they just buy the base tattoo keeping them from people with less cash.

But I sense a new debate thread coming-Is the HF overpowered? How about we go there for that one and leave this for the TA.

Wasp May 4 2009 1:50 PM EDT

Yes lesser tattoos serve no purpose in the game. Yet the auctioneer is still spawning them. They are useless. Maybe spawning just normal tattoos would help, rather then spawning stupid lesser ones. Still, imposing a 2 change a month limit would be helpful. Or 1 change and the ability to un-change it for free or something.

QBRanger May 4 2009 1:52 PM EDT

Remove lesser tattoos and give every tournament character a base one when they start if tats are allowed in that particular tourney.

That way tournaments that use tattoos are not decided on who gets one first.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] May 4 2009 1:57 PM EDT

i had proposed that when the original tournament input threads were created as well as since then. spawn all tourney characters with the items they need/desire for that tourney when those items are allowed.

slayer stated he would love to have that ability but that he doesn't expect it any time soon. here's hoping though!

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] May 4 2009 2:01 PM EDT

basically, the tourney character creation screen should have radial buttons for the approved gear in specific categories and you select one from each category you want. yes, this would mean you come up with a gear set and have to stick with that gear for the tourney.

all transactions would be blocked from tourney characters under this set up as well.

QBRanger May 4 2009 2:02 PM EDT

"all transactions would be blocked from tourney characters under this set up as well. "

I would still let them use the store for basic armors.

But o/w I agree completely with your idea.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] May 4 2009 2:20 PM EDT

they would start with that as well, if it was on the approved gear list for that tourney.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] May 5 2009 3:04 AM EDT

Allow Lesser Tattoo's to be used in place of full ones in the TA, but add a 400,000 CB (or whatever) charge.

Cube May 5 2009 3:32 AM EDT

Actually, I have a better solution for lessers. Allow inking from a lesser to a non-lesser and vice versa. It will still cost a tattoo, but it would be very easy to try out another type by inking to a lesser version of it. (You can still revert and or ink back to a normal tattoo type)

Not only would this let you try out other tattoos for a minor penalty temporary half tattoo growth rate, but new players who started out leveling a lesser could ink their lessers into normal tattoos once they got enough cash.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] May 5 2009 3:40 AM EDT

So what do you do after you've tried it out, and luckily remebered to revert back (heaven forbid you have an internet failure or CB is down at the end of your weeks time...) and want to then use the new Tattoo full time?

Cube May 5 2009 3:42 AM EDT

You'd have to find a real version of the Tattoo still, but if people are crying out for the ability to try out tattoos, this seemed to me like a decent solution.

QBJohnnywas May 5 2009 3:44 AM EDT

Add something else to tattoos. Perhaps the ability to only hold TWO at a time.

Stop all those people sitting on tattoos that they're not using, just incase they want to switch strats at some point....

Cube May 5 2009 3:52 AM EDT

JW, would you be suggesting... socialism? =P

QBJohnnywas May 5 2009 4:56 AM EDT

Nothing wrong with socialism. ;)

Wasp mentions the 67 EFs left. Looking through them what strikes is how many of those particular tatts are sitting on storage chars. Oh and 2 that are with Mr Chairman.

It's always been my problem with 'rares' in the game, the hoarding mentality.

Wizard'sFirstRule May 5 2009 10:26 AM EDT

the other alternative is that everyone get everything. It is always going to be worth hoarding if there is a chance you might need it later and you don't need the money. Only when you can get whatever you want when you want it (or so easy that it is not worth the hassle of keeping track of it) then hoarding become pointless. However, in order for an "economy" to have goods so freely available (without affecting demand - people still want items when they do), is to over-supply and watch items become worthless.

The demand for items are downward sloping, and supply for item is fixed (so it is a vertical line) in the long run (short run there are the "hoarded" item, but in the long run there is only new item from auction).

Cube May 5 2009 1:42 PM EDT

Really I never understood this argument. Why should changing your tattoo not be as difficult as changing melee weapons? It's pretty generous.

Changing ranged weapons on the other hand..

QBRanger May 5 2009 1:51 PM EDT

Not everyone uses a melee weapon, while 99% of CB use a tattoo?

Those that use melee weapons typically have money and can bid on base weapons. Not all that use tattoo have money to bid against thost that do.

Even before your time Cube, tattoos could not be changed.

Then to change them cost 1% of their levels.

Then we got the 400k per change and redone to the current state.

Trust me, not being able to change a tattoo is quite horrible making for incredible stagnation.

Being able to change a tattoo makes things very interesting and I am 100% for it. I would like to see it be easy to keep the ranks full of challenge.

A melee weapon changing does not really change a lot except for perhaps a few opponents. Changing a tattoo can mean a world of difference. And almost everyone uses a tattoo.

Cube May 5 2009 2:03 PM EDT

"A melee weapon changing does not really change a lot except for perhaps a few opponents. Changing a tattoo can mean a world of difference."

That's exactly why I think changing a tattoo should be *at least* as difficult as changing a melee weapon.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] May 5 2009 2:05 PM EDT

with a tattoo change though you also will likely be changing gear as well as retraining some. you already face some pretty steep penalties in my mind so the actual tat change should be made more user friendly and less inventory dependent.

three4thsforsaken May 6 2009 2:26 AM EDT

I'm getting worried because tattoos are getting more and more scarce.
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