Would you voluntarily enter the CB lottery? (in General)

QBRanger June 15 2009 3:32 PM EDT

In another thread Sut asked a nice question.

Given an opt out option, would you opt in or out of the recent change.

That is 20% less cash rewards for a chance to get drops.

Please 1 reply per person, stating yes or no.

Yes being that you WOULD enter such a lotto/lottery.

No being you want your guaranteed rewards and would not want random drops.

And if yes or no, a brief explanation as to why.

I really would like both new and old player to post to get a general feeling on this change.

My answer is obvious. A huge NO.

winner winner June 15 2009 3:33 PM EDT

I definitely wouldn't enter the lottery since cash is preferred over items that I don't want.

{Wookie}-Jir.Vr- June 15 2009 3:33 PM EDT

No. I've now fought so many battles, that unless my lotto drop (assuming I get one) sells for over 2m, I'll be eating a loss.

Lefty June 15 2009 3:35 PM EDT


I have yet to get a drop, and all the money lost isn't very fun.

QBJohnnywas June 15 2009 3:36 PM EDT

Yes. :)

DoS June 15 2009 3:36 PM EDT

No because I have always liked having a for sure amount of cash achievable in each battle. With the current system, some people are luckier than others and have gotten a few drops compared to the others that have gotten multiple. I have an idea on how it could be changed to better suit everyone more fairly but that isn't for this topic.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] June 15 2009 3:36 PM EDT

I would make some effort to determine which way would give overall better rewards then decide ;)

I would probably fail then go lottery as I like to gamble and don't care much either way.

QBRanger June 15 2009 3:38 PM EDT

One addendum,

can you please state how many drops you have gotten when answering?

I have gotten only 1, EGs.

And from now on, please 1 post per person to keep the thread sort of clean.

Goodfish June 15 2009 3:38 PM EDT

I would not willingly give up 20% of my cash.

Windwalker June 15 2009 3:39 PM EDT

Although getting an item (I received an AoJ)is nice. I think the twenty percent is too high. Maybe cut it in half. With the cut in rewards it does not leave a lot of wiggle room for tank characters. NO as is.

Goodfish June 15 2009 3:39 PM EDT

No drops, sorry. I was posting when you typed that.

Dark Dreky June 15 2009 3:40 PM EDT

I would vote yes. Mostly because I am a gambling man at heart, and by the looks of it, most would opt out. Thus increasing my chances of winning an item.

I have won zero drops so far.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] June 15 2009 3:40 PM EDT

I got 1 LRoBF

AdminShade June 15 2009 3:41 PM EDT

If being given the choice, I would not join.

BluBBen June 15 2009 3:43 PM EDT

I have gotten nothing so far.

And Yes! I would like such a lottery since the feeling that "next fight might give me an item!!" is almost addicting =)

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] June 15 2009 3:54 PM EDT

I would enter the lottery. I like it, probably because I'm not running for the top. But I would NOT enter if the drop tables continue to include stupid crap like Katanas, GoMs...you see where I'm going. Some items should not be rares.

Newlin [SeeD] June 15 2009 3:58 PM EDT

I would not enter this "lottery". And I have received zero drops.

gols090 [forge of me] June 15 2009 4:07 PM EDT

I'd rather not be a part of it. Having the cash gives us options.

gols090 [forge of me] June 15 2009 4:10 PM EDT

I didn't read ranger's second post.

I received FF and ES already, but I don't care if it's a cornuthaum, I still dislike this system.

BHT June 15 2009 4:13 PM EDT

Yes, I would enter.

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] June 15 2009 4:16 PM EDT

Yes I would. I believe I said something similar, as well, in another thread involving options for a poll :P

Corath June 15 2009 4:16 PM EDT

no lottery for me please..

no drops yet.. im sure they will come, but i would like the cash over the drops

Sickone June 15 2009 4:18 PM EDT

NO, I would have not willingly entered this item lottery.

I would have not entered it willingly even if I was assured the rewards were fair (in other words, if I sold all I got I would make back all cash on average) because it's a total drag to have a cluttered inventory, fill the FS forum or take your chances with the auction system (usually, what a surprise, Mr. Chairman would end up buying my stuff).
But since it's obvious that overall I actually lose money... a huge, resounding NO.

{WW]Nayab [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 15 2009 4:29 PM EDT

I would join this lottery voluntarily if the reduction of money was reduced to being a 10% penalty instead of this 20% we are experiencing now.
I have received no items yet.

chuck1234 June 15 2009 4:31 PM EDT


I've got two items so far: AoJ, and Gloves of Mercy [sell to store 27k].

QBsutekh137 June 15 2009 4:32 PM EDT


I have received an AoJ and an Enforcer's xbow so far.

QBJohnnywas June 15 2009 4:36 PM EDT


Shield of Capacity and a Lesser EF.

(SoC is in use on my char, lesser EF is sitting on my bank char. Not quite sure where that leaves me financially.)

Tyriel [123456789] June 15 2009 4:37 PM EDT


No items yet.

GoLDeNGaTE June 15 2009 4:39 PM EDT

No...want the money i was making instead. Received a lesser ToA

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 15 2009 4:40 PM EDT


so far i have received an aoj and an elven stiletto.

Lord Bob June 15 2009 4:41 PM EDT

No. Zero drops.

[SIBT]Gardiner Amarth June 15 2009 4:42 PM EDT

Yes, I would opt in.

[SIBT]Gardiner Amarth June 15 2009 4:43 PM EDT

Sorry for the double post, but no, I haven't received any drops, but I would still opt in.

[RX3]Cotillion June 15 2009 6:28 PM EDT

No. I've read numerous times in these forums that a character is disposable. I wanted to create a NCB and the reduction in cash rewards will definitely set me back.

AdminTal Destra [C and S Forgery Lmtd.] June 15 2009 6:32 PM EDT

Yes, but my opinion means squat when im forging

[RX3]Cotillion June 15 2009 6:39 PM EDT

Haven't gotten any drops yet.

FailBoat[SG] [Forever Alone] June 15 2009 6:45 PM EDT

No. I had hoped to run a Solo Archer team after this NCB but this lottery is making that look like a pipe dream.

Burton June 15 2009 6:48 PM EDT

No, I would not voluntarily enter the lottery because it is a horrible change to a good game.
I have gotten 1x ToA and 1x Hal Fam and still would say no even though I have gotten 2 more items then some people.

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] June 15 2009 6:55 PM EDT

Let me reduce my thoughts to one sentence:

''Randomness should be a plus, not a hindrance to predictability.''

CB is a strategy game. Drops do add a little excitement, but should not happen to skew what is predictable in it: Rewards.

So, drops should happen with a very low percentage. With very low reward cuts to go with em.

j'bob June 15 2009 6:57 PM EDT

I prefer to do other things with my money. And if there is something I want, then I would rather have control over seeking it out and getting it (as opposed to fighting a lot and hoping I find it). As for selling a drop I don't like hoping that if and when I do get a "drop" the market is posed for a profitable sale of said drop.

QBsutekh137 June 15 2009 7:07 PM EDT

Yes, but does Buddy Lee prefer drops? Or IS this Buddy Lee speaking?

j'bob June 15 2009 7:09 PM EDT

j'bob is merely the mouth piece of Buddy Lee. Whatever is said you must believe that it has been cleared by the will of the Man of Action!!!!

Mikel June 15 2009 7:09 PM EDT

I want my, I want my CBd

Cube June 15 2009 7:12 PM EDT

This question is a little well.. silly. The reason most people are upset is because of the disproportionate drop in cash.. not the randomness. If you reduce rewards, of course people are going to be unhappy.

It's like asking someone if they like that the economic collapse.

QBRanger June 15 2009 7:14 PM EDT


Please answer the question. Or get out of the thread.

If you do not like the Q, move on.

But Jon reduced the cash to compensate for the drops. Overall he feels it should even out in the long run. Less cash for more rares, which you can use or sell.

Solare June 15 2009 7:19 PM EDT

NO. I'm with you Ranger.

I don't mind the drops, but reducing cash rewards by 20%? Heck no, give me back my cash! And to further reduce it for more drops? No, once again, gimme my cash!

I have only received a Helm of Ecthelion (+4).

Cube June 15 2009 7:21 PM EDT

Harsh; I venture in one post providing my answer and get a response to get out.

As I was trying to say, if rewards and cash were balanced better, it'd be easier for people to get on board. But I see you don't like anything but a yes or no.

They're either wit' us or again' us!

And you were just priding the last thread on being very civil...

Good day

QBsutekh137 June 15 2009 7:23 PM EDT

C'mon, Ranger, Cube's point is valid (though Cube, wouldn't help to answer the question, too. *smile*)

I agree, we can keep this thread just as civil as the other!

QBRanger June 15 2009 7:25 PM EDT


Let us say, as it is NOW, the rewards are balanced.

Some are ahead like Sox, others are equal like me, and others are behind with no drops.

So with that what is your answer.

Sry if I was nasty before.

Cube June 15 2009 7:25 PM EDT

Answer: No.
Reason: I perceive the change as disproportionate.

Cube June 15 2009 7:27 PM EDT

Even if it is perfectly balanced, no because there's no point taking a Zero sum risk. Yep, I am someone who can't have any fun in a casino without poker.

Messbrutal June 15 2009 7:28 PM EDT

I share The R in Poutine opinion on this.

So no I would not like to enter such a lottery.

So far I won a lesser tatoo of endurance and made a wicked profit of 2000CBD with it to the store.

Flamey June 15 2009 8:27 PM EDT


however I'd like to be able to play it on a weekly basis and opt out on a weekly basis if I want to.

Soul Eater June 15 2009 8:32 PM EDT

If he brought the money rewards back and still allowed us to have drops then I'd say yes. Otherwise it's a no.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] June 15 2009 8:34 PM EDT

Yes, but only because for every person that doesn't participate, the chance of getting a drop would go up, since not everybody would be in on the lottery.

But since I'm a forger, it is pointless anyways...

Vaynard [Fees Dirt Cheap] June 15 2009 9:12 PM EDT

Yes, and here's why:

If you had to opt for either more cash or a chance at rare drops, a lot of people would just go cash. That still leaves 50% of the game rares entering through drops, but to much less people.

Untouchable June 15 2009 9:14 PM EDT

because i hold t3h lottery contests.

QBsutekh137 June 15 2009 9:34 PM EDT

Vaynard, if it became optional, I assure you the parameters of how things worked would change...

CB does not give a free lunch. Feel free to repeat it after me. CB does not give a free lunch.

QBRanger June 15 2009 9:40 PM EDT


I am sure that those who opt in and out in such a system will have the same net cash inflow.

QBsutekh137 June 15 2009 9:49 PM EDT

Folks need to understand -- THIS IS A ZERO-NET PHENOMENON.

It always has been, always will be. All you get to choose (if even that) is how it is distributed.

Right now it is distributed in large, highly-varied, unplannable chunks. If you like that, fine. But if you can, please explain to me why that adds value to your sense of "fun".

And before you use the word "gamble", please recall there are literally hundreds of Flash apps that will let you play free, meaningless slot machine simulators.

At it's best, that is what the drop system is.

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] June 15 2009 9:55 PM EDT

My opinion on drops is simple to explain.

Items are more fun than CBD, hence why I think they are ''exciting''. Now, I know some people love and NEED their rewards to be calculable and predictable. Which is fine. So, again I say rewards should be cut by a tiny amount and drops should be super-rare. Keep the change, but make it less apparent.

QBsutekh137 June 15 2009 10:19 PM EDT

I don't disagree with you, french-fries-and-gravy (almost made it).

But even that trivializes the whole thing... Why have some rare pop-out when just having the cash would let you simply BUY the damn thing? This whole lotto-drop idea is artificially mystifying something _banal_.

You can dress up a 260-pound butcher-hog in lace, ribbons, and fine silk all you want. But I'll still just be wondering, "Where's the bacon?"

And once I get the bacon, it'll taste just the same. Even Steven, again.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 15 2009 10:23 PM EDT

i guess some of us would go out for a night on the town with the pig and have a wonderful time and still enjoy the bacon too. ;)

QBsutekh137 June 15 2009 10:41 PM EDT

dudemus, you know I love ya, but if everything is just peachy and rosy all the time, then god bless, I guess. What else can I say?

Admiralkiller [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 15 2009 11:02 PM EDT

I say yes.

Jon perhaps should have just made the 20% less money and the drop prize a separate thing. Really we all make 20% cash so it's not like anyone gets an advantage. Random also has a way of making everything even and eventually it will.

So IMO I view it as two separate things and just accept it.

Jon never seems to give in to peoples complaints either so to me it's part of the game and is not going to change anytime soon. For me this issue is over.

BHT June 15 2009 11:08 PM EDT

I think Jon should just lower the cost of BA by 20%, and it will make everything equal and balanced again. Sound Good?

Untouchable June 15 2009 11:20 PM EDT

i like it.
Plain and simple, just like my suggestions.
but who listens?

QBsutekh137 June 15 2009 11:40 PM EDT

WoC, almost there:

-- Lower BA cost 20%
-- Lower minion cost 20%
-- Lower all gear upgrade costs 20% (BA only, I guess, since forgers still have the same yield).

In other words, anything that costs cash in the game needs to be lowered 20%, too. Or at least lowered some to titrate the unpredictability (and crappy rare drops) of the new drop lottery.

[SIBT]Gardiner Amarth June 15 2009 11:46 PM EDT

Sut, wouldn't lowering the cost of all that sort of defeat the purpose of lowering the rewards to begin with? It was intended as a tradeoff, albeit maybe a bit of a harsh one. I understand a lot of people want to have the cake and eat it, but generally that's just not how it works.

QBOddBird June 15 2009 11:52 PM EDT

Out of curiosity, what would be the point in lowering cash rewards by 20% if every expense in the game is lowered by the same amount?

I'm getting the feeling from many that "I'll be unhappy until I receive the same thing I was before, PLUS random drops."

QBsutekh137 June 16 2009 12:08 AM EDT

Nope, I sure never asked for that. I Want drops to go away and cash to go back to the way it was.

No free lunch, and even if there were, I'd be the last guys asking for it (and likely the first to leave!)

QBRanger June 16 2009 12:09 AM EDT


The changes are and should be a ZERO SUM event. Over enough time that is. For a while it will not be. It seems most will be negative until they find that drop worth 100k-millions of CB.

A few will be highly positive finding high end rares like corns, SBs, and AoJs.

And a few will be even, like myself finding occasional mid ranged items.

There should ONLY be a change if the 20% turns out to be off. And then adjusted to keep the zero sum status.

At least that is how I see things with this change.

QBsutekh137 June 16 2009 12:13 AM EDT

And yeah, GA, that is what it was _supposed_ to be. But it isn't. Half of the rares, maybe more, are worthless. Zero value. And Ranger's excellent point is that with less cash in the game, prices will only go DOWN. How can anyone every recoup the lost cash?

And for some, recouping will NEVER be timely. Look, we are already into 11-12 days and some folks have nothing. Even if they got something right now, auctioned it, it could be an even two weeks for cash (and that cash might be the paltry sum from selling an axbow, for example).

Two weeks without 20% of normal revenue. That affects things you might rent, gear you might upgrade, minion savings you were saving for, loans you were paying off, and insult to injury, the ability to buy BA -- the very thing that gets you the damn chance at a drop in the first place.

This change has taken the part of the game that responsible, forward-thinking players have used for more than 5 years (financial discipline and management) and turned it into a randomized joke (with no apparent benefits, even if you don't mind the downsides).

So, what's the point?

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] June 16 2009 12:20 AM EDT

OB you hit the nail on the head, everyone wants free stuff *shrugs* it is human nature.

Honestly I feel a lowering of the % taken out to 5-10% while keeping the drop rate the same is a FAIR compromise. I will, however, say that I vehemently say "NO!" to the drops being completely free.

Absolutely N-to-the-O for free drops!

[SIBT]Gardiner Amarth June 16 2009 12:22 AM EDT

Sut, I think maybe the point was to shake up a game that's become somewhat stagnant, in part. Outside of the NUB or running an NCB, fighting is pretty much a slow grind, and honestly, kind of boring at times. Having the possibility of a rare drop adds a bit of excitement.

QBsutekh137 June 16 2009 12:25 AM EDT

GA, I don't disagree. I've gotten two drops, and, well, I'm already over it. :\

Do you really think random drops add long-term appeal? (genuine question).

And as others have pointed out, fixing some issues in gameplay might also serve to make the game more appealing. PL and the exbow, depending on the day, can make me want to give up the game entirely at times.

Cube June 16 2009 12:25 AM EDT

When you get older, you lose your regularity. I believe it's called Incontinence.

In seriousness though, the world is random and unpredictable, and I get that CB never had it, and doesn't feel like it should, but it's not all that different. To make my answer clearer, IF I had a choice I would opt out. That doesn't mean that I dislike the change, as it effects everyone evenly in the long run. This is why I disliked the question.

QBsutekh137 June 16 2009 12:27 AM EDT

Correction, Cube, CB _used_ to have it, and has subsequently had it systematically removed over the last 4 years or so.

The "it" being randomness.

You know what, screw it. Bring it all back. I want cast rates back!

Heck, bring back Finger of Death, the ultimate in chance-based gameplay!

Cube June 16 2009 12:32 AM EDT

Okay, you've lost me by now... But I'll agree to anything blindly! Bring whatever that is back.

QBsutekh137 June 16 2009 12:34 AM EDT

Muhahahaha! Cube is my new minion!!!!!....

Crap, what should I do with _that_? *smile*

(just joking around, man, I don't even remember how all the old-school stuff worked, and truth be told, FoD was canned right before I started the game in May 2003...)

QBRanger June 16 2009 12:35 AM EDT

FoD was decay before decay was decay.

% chance to kill your opponents minion.

I joined CB after it was changed to decay and perhaps someone like Sut who was in CB1 longer can explain it better for all us newer players.

QBsutekh137 June 16 2009 12:39 AM EDT

Nah, it was already canned when I got here, it was something like a 5% chance to kill ANY minion, regardless of AC, etc. It was the first of the "totally random" things to get canned.

Then there were cast rates. Used to be enchantments had a chance of not casting at all. Win, Win, Win, Win, Lose. Heck, until I whined about it, you couldn't even untrain "intrinsics" (STR/DEX/HP). See where we are now.

OK, that last one has nothing to do with randomness. Time for me to go to bed. *smile*

Admiralkiller [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 16 2009 12:49 AM EDT

FOD= Finger of Death

Was upgradable the higher the % the better chance it would work.
I hated it.
However a low level character with a decent FoD could take out #1 every once in a while.

This thread is closed to new posts. However, you are welcome to reference it from a new thread; link this with the html <a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002nZZ">Would you voluntarily enter the CB lottery?</a>