Fined Zenai 25k for spellchecker abuse. (in Public Record)


AdminG Beee December 30 2009 9:35 AM EST

Fined Zenai 25k for abusing the spellchecker on this thread.

Canrgae Blindre has alwyas let you make speling mistkes providng u use the propre NOSPELLCHECK tags. This isnot opne to abues and shood onyl be used for propre names etc... If you'ev plaid CB for any lenthg of time then u shood be very wel awrae of this.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] December 30 2009 9:56 AM EST

Should we be reporting folks then?

This is the first fine I've seen for this behavior in years.

QBRanger December 30 2009 10:10 AM EST

This was the most obvious I have seen in years.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] December 30 2009 10:11 AM EST

So amount dictates enforcement? noted.

QBRanger December 30 2009 10:13 AM EST

Yes

TheHatchetman December 30 2009 11:13 AM EST

My guess, "I wish there was an option to turn off the stupid spell checker or to allow words from other languages from an online dictionary." is about the equivalent of refreshing the old chat. Everyone does it every now and then, but when ya do it 30 times back to back, expect a little /kick or /kill?

QBRanger December 30 2009 11:33 AM EST

This is an old post that may help those with poor HTML knowledge:

http://www.carnageblender.com/news/item.tcl?news_item_id=100239

Demigod December 30 2009 11:47 AM EST

Oddly enough, that page does not show the tag for omitting text from the spellchecker.

AdminG Beee December 30 2009 11:59 AM EST

Thanks, it does now Demigod.

Flamey December 30 2009 12:15 PM EST

Except it's unbelievably annoying when you've failed to pass the threshold then you need paragraph breaks everytime you want to leave a line with the nospellcheck.

AdminNightStrike December 30 2009 12:15 PM EST

Wow.

I've never seen such spell checker abuse in my entire stay here at CB. Zenai, do you not know about the no spell check html tag? When you go to post a message, it is very clearly explained to not do what you did, and how to address it properly.

Kefeck [BlackSmith] December 30 2009 12:16 PM EST

Imo this fine is crap

AdminNightStrike December 30 2009 12:16 PM EST

Flamey - though I agree at that annoyance (and have been frustrated by it many times), anyone should know that a post of that caliber would never pass the spell checker well before you start.

lostling December 30 2009 12:19 PM EST

i never understood the need for a spellchecker... how about putting a toggle in settings for supporters?

QBRanger December 30 2009 12:21 PM EST

I actually like the spellchecker.

Many a time I have misspelled a word to realize it when I try to post.

Going back and correcting it makes one look less stupid than one really is.

Flamey December 30 2009 12:22 PM EST

Do usernames get flagged? I forget these things. If they do then doing a contest-related and formatted post (with your enter key) would prove insanely annoying. However, I have a feeling that they don't get flagged.

Lochnivar December 30 2009 12:24 PM EST

+1 Ranger :-)

We should all embrace being made to look smarter than we really are!

Incidentally, with regards to the 'this fine is crap' comment. Fines like this used to be common, the reason this one stands out is that fewer people blatantly flaunt the spell check rule.

This isn't a massive punitive fine, it is merely an affirmation for all players (especially the new ones) that there are forum rules for posting.

Kefeck [BlackSmith] December 30 2009 12:24 PM EST

Why is it when someone gets fined, it's made public? With a thread entitled FINED: (insert name here) (Followed by reason)

QBRanger December 30 2009 12:25 PM EST

User names do not get flagged unless then have a QB or admin tag in front.

There was a discussion about trying to have all QB and admin added to the dictionary, however, with the ability to change names (and some do it every month) it would be very hard to keep things up to date.

However,

Is it possible to have a toggle to turn off the spell checker before you actually post, instead of having to go into HTML mode to "fool" the system?

If you want to use HTML for a table or other things, great, but let it be easy for those of use with limited HTML experience.

Lochnivar December 30 2009 12:25 PM EST

aww.. dang, my last post could have used grammar check too...

QBRanger December 30 2009 12:26 PM EST

Why is it when someone gets fined, it's made public? With a thread entitled FINED: (insert name here) (Followed by reason)


So others can see what was the fine, why it was, and that they not do the same thing.

lostling December 30 2009 12:26 PM EST

i would like to say i dont know much html.. and i hate it =x

QBRanger December 30 2009 12:27 PM EST

Incidentally, with regards to the 'this fine is crap' comment. Fines like this used to be common, the reason this one stands out is that fewer people blatantly flaunt the spell check rule. This isn't a massive punitive fine, it is merely an affirmation for all players (especially the new ones) that there are forum rules for posting.


Back at you Loch, +1 :)

Demigod December 30 2009 12:27 PM EST

Imo this fine is crap


At $25k, I doubt Zen is hurting. It's more of a reminder to not spam a post than it is a punishment. While you may disagree with the fine, I wouldn't call it crap unless there was another zero in that number.

QBRanger December 30 2009 12:29 PM EST

Yes,

IMO a 250k fine would not be out of line.

Consider Z knows the rules and actively went out of his way to get around it, given the warning about such activity.

Like someone stated earlier, I believe it was Hatch, this is analogous to a simple kick. A "watch it" type of fine, more to prevent others from doing the same thing.

kevlar December 30 2009 12:29 PM EST

the funny thing is, those words weren't misspelled on purpose like the example G blatantly typed out to mock. If anything, it was spam to bypass the spellcheck (not using the nospellcheck html), not misspelling. Names for characters will hardly ever pass the spell check (i.e. see any meso renaming thread). I think the approach of this fine is lost in translation.

QBRanger December 30 2009 12:32 PM EST

Hey,

I will be one of the first, sometimes the only person, to call out admins if they are arbitrarily handing out fines and/or punishments.

But in this case, I 100% agree with what Beee did. Without reservation.

25k is such a small amount and bring this issue to the forefront for new players to see and respect the rules.

AdminG Beee December 30 2009 12:35 PM EST

Kevlar, my intention was not to mock and shouldn't be taken that way. If it is, then I apologise.
My intention was to highlight that spellcheck works perfectly well when used correctly.

kevlar December 30 2009 12:35 PM EST

I'm not saying the fine isn't justified, I just think the approach is a little nuts. I mean, what new player is going to read that and understand what is going on? This post translates for people who only know what is going on already. And words weren't misspelled... they were names for a character for a game. It was spam that was the offense.

QBRanger December 30 2009 12:37 PM EST

Kevlar,

The names were not spam, but the many sentences at the end, designed only to bypass the spell check is.

There is a way to use HTML, with the instructions given when you fail the spell checker, that is easy enough that even I figured it out.

And when I could not, I asked in chat for a bit of help which easily comes.

kevlar December 30 2009 12:42 PM EST

Ranger, that is what I said. It is spam (to avoid the nospellcheck) that the fine was for, not misspelling (heck I've had to correct myself for typing misspelling 3 times already in this thread!).

QBRanger December 30 2009 12:44 PM EST

O,

I misunderstood :)

My bad!

Admiralkiller December 30 2009 12:46 PM EST

Now I agree with spell checker and wish it was in chat, as everyone knows I am ridiculous at spelling grammar and mistypes.

I did however listen in English class and when presenting things to others it's proper to use proper form. I probably don't use it exactly but one thing I do remember is names always have a capitol at the beginning of them. Could this be a way to avoid spell check problems?

E.G. Vernia Placia

Abbreviations are not always understood and should not be permitted thou in chat they run wild.

E.G. pls, ty, SB's.

AdminShade December 30 2009 12:50 PM EST

Some abbreviations which are not yet in the spelling checker can always be added if they are used enough and annoying enough not to have them in them.

AdminShade December 30 2009 12:51 PM EST

But to make this entire long thread short, every time you create a thread or create a post, you are being warned for the following:

...use <nospellcheck> tags to 'opt out' part of your post from spellcheck. (Choose HTML mode and simply write <nospellcheck>...my text...</nospellcheck>.) ...
...Ignoring this advice and simply padding your post with extra words to get above the 0.2 threshold without an exceptionally good reason will result in a fine...

AdminNightStrike December 30 2009 1:26 PM EST

All user names are in the dictionary automatically. You need at least the first four letters for it to work. For instance, this passes the spell checker:

Nigh
Flam
Shad

AdminNightStrike December 30 2009 1:30 PM EST

Thank you for that quote, Shade. As you point out, it's right there on the post confirmation page in plain sight.

Zenai December 30 2009 2:26 PM EST

Ok Folks was gone today since it was really busy and came back to this. Wow I didn't mean to cause a problem I was just trying to help Shade with a name for his DDO char.

1) Even if the fine were 250k I would still have gladly paid it. I broke a rule and have to pay the consequences for doing so.
2) I didn't know about the fine because honestly who reads all that crap when the spellchecker gets you. It's check the misspelled words, go back and fix it. If you cannot then pad it like the aforementioned Meso Naming Threads.
3) I know why the Spellchecker was made and why it should used. My personal thoughts though is that it should be a courtesy not something forced on us and enforced.
4) Freedom of Speech should also mean misspelling a few words intentionally as well.
5) I hope everyone learned something from this.

Do not get me wrong these are my personal thoughts and opinions. I in no way would intentionally break the rules just because, nor do I advocate it. The Admins have enough on their plates to take care of as it is there is no need to add more.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] December 30 2009 2:27 PM EST

However AdminShade, or QBRanger both fail

AdminTitan December 30 2009 2:28 PM EST

Can we start being more consistent with these fines? I mean across all wrong doings.

QBRanger December 30 2009 2:37 PM EST

3) I know why the Spellchecker was made and why it should used. My personal thoughts though is that it should be a courtesy not something forced on us and enforced.


Yes, a toggle to turn it on and off would be greatly helpful.

Sometimes I make a post with some words I know will not be in the spell check dictionary. Then I have to use HTML with all the <br
to get the correct spacing etc..


Or use other words or pad the paragraphs a bit to get it through.

TheHatchetman December 30 2009 2:55 PM EST

E.G. pls, ty, SB's.


SB works... The B stands for boosters (the s included), so SBs = Spellboosterss. SB's = Spellboosters's

Lord Bob December 30 2009 2:58 PM EST

I'm OK with enforcing passable spelling and even grammar, but forcing someone to put br, div, or p tags around every line just to be able to post on one of the many naming threads we have around here is ridiculous. And this is coming from an html guru.

Either fix the html editor to auto-interpret line breaks, or raise the spelling threshold for plain text from 15% to 50%.

Lord Bob December 30 2009 3:00 PM EST

Also, can we get the quote feature changed from '>' to ">>" please? Trying to demonstrate html tags in plain text is impossible under the current type.

AdminTitan December 30 2009 3:16 PM EST

Also, can we get the quote feature changed from '>' to ">>" please? Trying to demonstrate html tags in plain text is impossible under the current type.


Now that is Hilarious!

AdminShade December 30 2009 3:17 PM EST

However AdminShade, or QBRanger both fail


True, hence the use of backspace or delete to make it Shade and Ranger ;)

AdminShade December 30 2009 3:19 PM EST

Either fix the html editor to auto-interpret line breaks, or raise the spelling threshold for plain text from 15% to 50%.


It's 20% already and that means you can fail a spelling every 5 words before having to use the <nospellcheck>. Isn't that enough?

Lord Bob December 30 2009 3:30 PM EST

It's 20% already


Right. It was 15% I forgot it was increased.
Isn't that enough?


Apparently not, given this thread.

As stated, it's foolish to expect anyone participating on threads like Shade's or Meso's to format every paragraph in raw html.

AdminShade December 30 2009 3:32 PM EST

Other way around it, for exotic names, would be to just CM the person involved... anyway I'll not kick any dead horses anymore, not my favourite past time.

Lord Bob December 30 2009 3:38 PM EST

just CM the person involved

Then it's not a public contest, which saps part of the fun out of it.

..that and someone gets bombarded with CMs.

AdminNightStrike December 30 2009 3:39 PM EST

I can change the quote thing, I guess. I suppose what I should really do is just go so far as to start interpreting [quote] and [/quote]. That would not be fun, though :(

Is ">>" really desirable? Don't forget that the RE is set to match at the beginning of the line, so all you need to do to show html tags is put a space before it or something. It has to be in the first column (unless I did it wrong, which I very well could have).

QBRanger December 30 2009 3:52 PM EST

If you look at my post above, I tried to use <br>as an example with a space after the second arrow head. You can see how that turned out.

Demigod December 30 2009 3:57 PM EST

Is ">>" really desirable?


I'm fine with either one.

{Wookie}-Jir.Vr- December 31 2009 5:35 AM EST

My biggest problem with using the 'nospellcheck' is that by switching to HTML you have to then proceed to go through your entire post placing page breaks, which sometimes can be a huge chore, and other times be nothing at all. But it's usually a big long post with lots of needed breaks to warrant html anyways.

I would be all for making spell checker a FEATURE instead of a LAW. Most intelligent people will (as Ranger already pointed out) see what they misspelled and go back and fix it before posting.

I understand the fear of the forums being turned into Bast's worst nightmare, but I really don't think you'll see a negative change at all. In fact it would make 'padding' posts in general pointless, so maybe you'll see less run on sentences from people too lazy to go put breaks in their entire post.

.02

Zenai December 31 2009 7:06 AM EST

Or just maybe set the Spellchecker to catch the misspellings that do occur(they happen even to the smartest people) and only warns you rather than says you cannot post it. If a person was intelligent then they would, as a matter of course, ensure that the things misspelled were intentional or not and correct them if needed.

I would even go as far as to say if the Devs simply do not want to do that then here is an alternative. Make a new Forum that allows up to 100% Misspellings for Naming threads and the like. I'm fairly sure it can be done since the FS/WTB Forum is the only one like it then another unique one can be made as well.

Or if the Devs do not want to do that or are unable to for whatever reason. Change the Contests Forum to allow a much higher Threshold of Misspellings for Contests like the naming threads. Afterall it was a contest that caused this to happen in the first place right?

Just a few thoughts.

AdminG Beee December 31 2009 7:46 AM EST

I believe the spellchecker works well right now and there's no need for changes. For sure it's an inconvenience when forced to use HTML breaks, but it's a minor inconvenience compared to the alternative in my opinion.

One of the reasons (my favourite) for the spell checker is to prevent the horrible use of l33t speak on the forums.

Adminedyit December 31 2009 8:06 AM EST

psst, you misspelled favorite ;)
silly brits and your extra vowels

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] December 31 2009 8:31 AM EST


Zen, you give people too much credit. Plenty of misspellings get posted despite the warning, when the posts are long enough to allow for them and the poster is too lazy to go back and remove the offenses.

Kefeck [BlackSmith] December 31 2009 10:27 AM EST

Is there a list of forums rules anywhere?

G Bee informed me there was not.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] December 31 2009 10:37 AM EST

Zen, you give people too much credit. Plenty of misspellings get posted despite the warning, when the posts are long enough to allow for them and the poster is too lazy to go back and remove the offenses.


Yup, I'm guilty of that. ;)

But it also stems from the hastle of making CB spell 'colour' or 'armour' correctly, and that I'm either usually rushing to post at work, or being interrupted by my little girl (or suffering fat finger fail on my laptops keyboard. I swear that thing eats letters on purpose!).

Who am I trying to kid, I'm mostly lazy. ;)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] December 31 2009 10:39 AM EST

For instance, when it came to preview, the 't' was missing from guilty above. Donno how. ;)

Usually I'd just let that slide and post anyway. ;)

AdminNightStrike December 31 2009 11:31 AM EST

Ok, so it seems that I made a typo in making the quote thing. It isn't limited to the beginning of the line. Anyone good with RE?

(^|^<br>)?&gt; (.*)$

That's what I'm using. The ? should signify one or the other of ^ or ^<br>, which means either a line starting with nothing, or with br.

Zenai December 31 2009 12:45 PM EST

I believe the spellchecker works well right now and there's no need for changes. For sure it's an inconvenience when forced to use HTML breaks, but it's a minor inconvenience compared to the alternative in my opinion. One of the reasons (my favorite) for the spell checker is to prevent the horrible use of l33t speak on the forums.


I do not use HTML at all (unless absolutely necessary) and honestly I do not feel I should have to be a HTML Guru just to post on a Thread. Even Lord Bob, who IS an HTML Guru, says he hates to do it here that should speak for itself. It is time consuming and extremely inconvenient even when you are not cramped for time. On the l33t Speak as well as everything else misspelled I have to say one thing and I hope I do not offend.

This is a "Game" not "Grammar School" so why is there even an issue in the first place?


As I said before the Spellchecker should be a Courtesy not Enforced as a Law. If you want to Circumvent l33t Speak then have the sever block it in the forums period or just do not read the Thread/Post. As it stands in chat people make fun of it all the time, some of it is bound to leak it's way into forums in one way or another sooner or later if not already. (Probably as the center of a joke.)

Zen, you give people too much credit. Plenty of misspellings get posted despite the warning, when the posts are long enough to allow for them and the poster is too lazy to go back and remove the offenses.


I'm not really giving people credit Bast just saying they should have the option to heed the spellchecker or not. It really does not require higher intelligence to look at the spellchecker to catch mistakes just time. If a person is cramped for time the spellchecker becomes more than an inconvenience it becomes a hassle.


Once again my thoughts and opinions folks.

Adios Muchachos January 6 2010 3:46 PM EST

Just use Fexy's Script... does the <br> for you and all you have to hit is nospellcheck. it even puts the whole shibang into html for you.

[P]Mitt January 6 2010 3:54 PM EST

Fexy's Script Disappears?

QBOddBird January 6 2010 4:46 PM EST

As I said before the Spellchecker should be a Courtesy not Enforced as a Law.


Actually, one of the things I like best about this game is how encouraged proper spelling and grammar are. I don't see a need for a change of any sort.
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