Farm alert (in General)

Rubicon has an extremely unbalanced character that may be exploited by mage teams. Anyone want an easy target at 7M score that can be taken out by someone with about 1.5M score check this guy out! It has only 250K hit points, a RoBF, and tons of EC.

Lol :P

You realize you're only hurting NCBs doing this right?

I'm doing this for purely selfish reasons.

I hope that FF is worth it :P

lol, u told others about my farm! >:[

I hope you know what you have done.... say goodbye to your existing challenge bonus... gg

lol who? :>

Mikel's; you're should stay at 100%; I'm confident I can keep it fairly high for a few weeks until score really start to sink.

your's

This is awesome

Yeah, I'm guessing that's how Lamu feels. His score just went from like 3M to 5.5M in <15mins

Hahahahaha sorry guys but honestly this is funny. Strategy comes in all kinds of forms. This is just one of many. Oh and Titan if you thought someone was not gonna catch on you are highly mistaken. You probably shouldn't have been all over chat talking about how you could hurt the score system you made yourself a pawn.

Congratulations ;-)

Should I bring PoR back to really wreak some havoc? Hmm... Oh the fun that would be.

Mikel only caught on b/c I was farming him and draining his score. It's funny now because that's going to happen and I didn't even do it purposely. That doesn't matter to me b/c this char is just my making money char and I could retrain at any time... can't say that for the other people that will be feeling the hurt.

Pretty sure he wants people to know about this, that way he's being farmed and his score is constantly being lowered. That way when he fights up there goes all that score.

Umm yeah he is defending himself he had a personal reason to find your weakness. However if you think he doesn't lurk again you are highly mistaken. Still though it's all about fun right? So what does the money matter eh? It's a non-chalant char so do your best/worst you will anyway right? Enjoy ;-)

No I don't want this to happen, I just want to make a lot of money. This is just going to happen now because mikel made this thread for a reason that seems beyond my grasp. B/c he's basically hurting everyone that was receiving a challenge bonus.

Miteke not mikel.

Ah, I was confused about Mikel. He is/was not getting farmed.

It also explains why more of my targets have less than 9M score.

Well done to whomever is using the game to his/her benefit. All within the rules.

Oh yes, that's what I meant. My apologizes to Mikel.

Be awesome if you did this with a larger character. :)

Miagi cast Ethereal Chains on all enemy Minions (8885207)

Well done!

And yes, this is a huge difference from slapping an exbow and accomplishing the same thing. This actually requires MPR.

The FF was NOT what I wanted to do, but it is shat I HAVE to do. Whenever a farmer comes along that creates a totally unbalanced character in order to farm a specific type of character there is typically a progression of events (yes, this has happened before):

1) The farmer has a period where massive gains are made
2) The farmies diversify and deny the farmer, but also hurt their score and rewards. The thing is that they don't hurt their score and rewards as much as they would had they kept their original strategy.
3) Then, MUCH lower PR characters start farming the original farmer who is typically so extremely unbalanced that it becomes party time for others a third or less their size.
4) the farmer finds that they are being farmed, but the targets are getting scarcer. Eventually, the farmer is forced to diversify.
5) The farmies, keeping an eye on the farmer, find that the newly diversified farmer has changed strats and returns to their original strat and their rewards go up. And make no mistake, they will be watching.


I just want to accelerate the process. Up to this point the challenge rewards suckage has been away from me. Not a good trend in my humble opinion and thus the selfish post. I know it will hurt your NCB but it is really for my own good :)

http://www.carnageblender.com/inspect_opponent.tcl?opponent_id=121322&opponent_name=Azthral

A larger character.

Yeah, I took some gear off to Ranger, I can get to over 9.5M EC.

Nothing wrong with EC cannons, I used to farm Construct with a char similar in size to Titan's. It is weak to Mages no matter what but doing it with a robf is doing it wrong(Pro:tip EF for other SG chars, SF if you're content with wasted Decay outside of single-minion non-ToA tanks.)

Oh really/ Then why you were bragging/boasting this in chat again? Should have kept your mouth shut ;-) Or this really was your aim as Kef said and you didn't think it would get this big/bad. Either way live with it or stop it your choice.

Is this where I tell you to quit trolling or get out of the thread?

I was discussing that with Pit originally about whether or not we thought it should be against the rules. Then Lamu stepped in a said he didn't think it would be a big problem; I simply refuted that claim. I could make this 10x worse by retraining over and over again to strategies that could beat people as high as possible, and lower my score drastically more with each retrain... but like I said, this is for money. I don't seek to ruin Areo's NCB with this, or anyone else's. Although I'm actually helping out Quyen quite a bit.

Aye, but there in lies the rub... this char isn't an NCB... and I don't give jack about it, I'm just using it to make money.

Which means this never needs to come to be as I can just retrain to the unbalanced strategy of the day.


Since that never comes to be, I just continually drain score and you lose all CB you ever had simply because you didn't want to share the wealth with 1 more farmer... quite a pity.

Not trolling bro. Just pointing out in a not so sugarcoated manner that the crux is you. So this can either be ended or continued by you. Now since you said this was never your intent then it should be a no brained to make the choice to let it go. Still though it is your choice. Let's see what decision you make through your actions.

Will he continue this char in the same manner and allow it to be the crux that hurts the score system and thus everyone in the game?

Or

Will he let his ego rest and for the sake of the rest of the players in this game retrain his char?

What does it really matter what Titan is doing?

Is it illegal? Hell no. It is perfectly legal and in fact possibly advised for lower MPR characters to be able to fight as high as possible.

If I were running a NCB, I would do something very similar in order to maximize my CB and then switch to a more generalized strategy later.

As Titan stated, he is doing this to earn money by fighting as high as possible. For Titan, whether or not this is a NCB is not applicable to monetary rewards.

Again, Great Job!!!

Nice example of adding extra dimensions of gameplay without a need for coding.
It was fun reading the strategic parts by the people involved.
Too bad topic went personal.

Oh, I for one have no problem with what Titan is doing, I just want to accelerate the cycle so I can get my nice big rewards back. His point about retraining to another unbalanced strategy is an interesting one though. That involves bowing to the inevitability of the cycle which is good thinking in my mind. Once we all return to our tank strategies he can return to an EC cannon again - kind of a cycle of cycles :) I don't know if the MPR loss from retraining will make it worth it, but it might be worth a try, particularly if all he is after is the short term money gain and is willing to sacrifice experience points :)

Yeah, see this character is essentially a disposable one. I'm just going to fight with it for like 6 months to make like 80M then do something else. Probably run an NCB. I don't have a problem with what he's doing, I'd have probably done something similar. Zen's just being a tard, that's why it got personal... he's very touchy.

>> Since that never comes to be, I just continually drain
>> score and you lose all CB you ever had simply because
>> you didn't want to share the wealth with 1 more farmer...
>> quite a pity.

There are problems with your thinking. First of all if we let you succeed it will NOT be 1 farmer. It tends to multiply in an unhealthy way (unhealthy for us of course). Because of this the end result is inevitable. The pure tanks WILL be forced to diversify, some quicker than others. I remember during the last round that some players reluctantly took steps only after being farmed for weeks. My strategy is flexible enough to allow a retrain of my familiar (for this very reason), but some (such as ToA single minions such as Guernica) are not. It is painful for them to strap on a steel familiar or something instead. I think of At some point, though, it becomes unbearable and even the most reluctant change - even teams like Guernica (who, fortunately for him, is out of your reach for a little while longer). You will enjoy a period of high rewards but it will come to an end eventually.

ToA tanks like Guernica have enough str and dex to overcome his EC.

Non-ToA tanks have to diversify.

Ranger: Never said it was good or bad or even outside of the rules. I'm simply pointing out that he said it was not his intent for this to happen and that it is withing his power to stop it since it starts with him.

This is drastically different from what I was discussing yesterday. What I am doing is actually helping out a good bit of people, spreading the score around if you will. What I was proposing yesterday would have the exact same harmful effects on the top without benefiting any of the smaller NCBs. I currently have no problem with what I'm doing now, it's actually helping an NUB right now a ton.

Temporarily helping them at the cost of the highend sure that makes sense Titan. In the end it will have the same detrimental effect on everyone it will just take longer. Doesn't really matter to me I was simply calling you on your statement. I see what the answer is though Kudos to you.

I don't think you understand math Zen...

Generally extreme strats are very socialist in nature.

Yeah, exactly what I called Xeno the other day... I'm giving from the rich and giving to the poor. What I was discussing yesterday was taking from the rich and lighting it on fire.

Titan: I do, I get the point that after a while it will start to level out. I don't think you understand the human element. Others will follow suit or worse pay more to do the same and then there is a problem. Worst case scenario some may say to hell with this and leave. It's happened before it will likely happen again. Once again no matter to me.

Other smart players already follow suit... I do stuff like this every time I run an NCB... I really don't think you understand how this game works.

Horribly, horribly true. Unless a tank is training absolutely nothing but HP the boost from a ToA and gears combined with exp being spent properly makes EC fairly ineffective. Damage may be reduced, sure, but the stats lost from investing heavily into a counter usually end in horribly low HP and damage capabilities.

If you're going to go multi-minion, tanks should not be your only damage source, EXbows and EC will just leave you raging.

Titan you are shy of an insane asylum if you think I do not understand this game.

Let me sum it up for you with a pretty bow: CB = Crab Bucket

At least in it's overall mechanics. Now add in the human factor and it changes. Not much but the dynamics change in the deal making and strategic moves etc. I'm sure you get the point.

Strats like yours (and in some ways mine although not as specific and harmful to the system) are just crabs with really long arms grabbing at a very specific crab. Problem is too many cause nasty cascade/ripple score effects, people following suit is not necessarily the best thing for the game overall. Still though it's up to you it's your disposable money making char......wait if scores drop overall and everyone decides to block your strat....eh no worries ;-)

I disagree. These strats are not bad for the game, they are very beneficial.

How?

lol crab bucket

To a small group Nat, not the game on an overall. If you have 10 people doing it you cause more problems than help provided.

Why not???

I personally like it when things like this occur.

My reason is of course selfish. I have no real way of getting a challenge bonus due to my MPR and PR. Lower people who use, IMO, abusive strats like the exbow or overpowered tattoos like the RoS and RBF tend to get high challenge bonuses.

When a cascade like this occurs, then even the overpowered items and strats in the upper levels fail to gain a CB and evens things a bit as far as growth rate.

A win/win for the likes of me, who plays a tank and is subject to the stupid NW/PR rules.

Generally this score comes from the top. At the top there isn't much opportunity to get a challenge bonus in the first place, and the more its drained the faster it generates there. In the end what it does it just makes the middle ranks grow faster without much sacrifice elsewhere.

I don't have the patience to explain to you how the CB system works; or how the concept of socialism works. I'd recommend talking to Nat, maybe she can explain it slowly enough for you Zen.

Kefeck, I'm just going to fight, I'm confident I can make close to 80M, if not then somewhere around 75M. 76M would be like 3M a week, I can do that no prob.

Ranger: Yes it is fun to watch and only a few tend to benefit which in itself is not too bad. It's when it grows and takes on a life of it's own that is becomes more than just a abusive strat but rather a threat to the balance of the system.

It can hardly threaten the system. This is far less of a threat than people stalemating vs less than 1 mil score targets to burn away their score constantly and remove all challenge bonus from the top half of the game.

slippery slope

I have a more firm grasp of this game than you think Titan you just fail to have the foresight I have. It's nothing against you personally just that thinking it's perfectly ok to run as highly specialized strat as yours is not so smart for the game in the long run. For a few to run this type of Specialized strat would cause problems. Having a handful could make the system shift and drop score for months, having 10 or more could completely drop the system to crap until either they are countered by a more stable strat or are retired. Now all of the ppl affected are at the top right? If they either can't adapt or refuse to retrain get pissy and either hire people to create a strat to counter their farmer which furthers the problem, find ppl with a strat that can do it already then tip them off or just plain quit. All of which are not good for the game. But hey maybe I'm just being a naysayer or doom prophetic. Proof is in the pudding right? Go for it and let's see how bad it can get >;-)

or a drama queen, don't forget drama queen

Not really sure I understand.

While I stated it was fun to watch and a benefit to me, please note I have no part in starting this and am just a bystander.

hi Ranger,

that categorization was directed at the quote it quoted
please forward along as needed

OB: Oh yeah of course that too........unless I am right.

dun dun dun dunnnnnnnn

This is what I was discussing in chat yesterday nat, but I think it's possible to do even better with retrains.


Man's got jokes


Yeah, something like that...


Not worried.

Titan: Of course you are not worried Titan is not about the game it's about you. Doesn't matter do your worst. Hehehe yes I do have jokes, keep on thinking I don't understand though I will enjoy it later.

OB: If you are gonna troll me with the oh so easy dun dun dunno at least get the squirrel. I swear man you are slipping up.

Z,

Why does it matter what Titan is doing? Really, why?

Does it make the game unplayable?

Part of the game is getting the best rewards and growth for YOURSELF.

What Titan is doing is nothing illegal or immoral.

So really, why do you care?

His panties are all in a bunch from another thread.

The Clan Point thread?

Now I see the light.

Ranger: I already said I don't care, truthfully is doesn't affect me and my foresight is of course worst case scenario. However I must ask why do you care if I comment? It's not my domain but it's not his either so I get to state my opinion. Just like everyone else I have a right to voice what is on my mind. Just like everyone else I have the right to post what is on my mind. Now if others don't like this it's honestly not my fault, but I shouldn't have to shut up because a few have a problem with those thoughts.

I do not care if you post or not.

Hell, I have made a business of posting when I should not.

But why so passionate about this particular thread and whether Titan sucks scores from the top?

That is my question.

I don't think anyone has a problem with what you are saying. I think most people find your incoherent blathering rather funny.

All right, all right. Enough with the personal jabs. This thread is going nowhere but downhill.

Hey, maybe that was my intent all along get the thread closed and then no one else would see it ... ehh ehh ?

Ranger: If my worst case scenario does come true all of us would be affected.

Titan: Sure buddy sure whatever you say to make yourself sleep better at night.

Stop with any personal jabs right now or this thread gets closed.

Now, I was actually referring to what happened for about a whole year with several people continuously burning scores away to keep all challenge bonus out of the top half of the game. During that whole time it didn't have a huge adverse affect on the top half, it balanced itself out to where they couldn't lower it farther because it was being generated too fast. Once they stopped scores shot up by 2-3 mil all across the upper regions of course.

No number of extreme strats will equal sustained score burning. Its as simple as that. They aren't destroying any score, they are simply moving it farther. The score will also generate faster the more is pulled away from the top so it is self correcting.

Whinna Whinna Chicken Dinna!

So, if I want this thread close all I have to do is call Zen something hmmmm :P

nat is a tourney admin as well and you do have quite a stash sitting on conqueror...

; )

Nat: This was when we had more players so the damage was spread out over a larger pool of chars. It wouldn't correct itself near as fast with the player base we have now. Add in for the fact the players changing over to extreme strats are taken away from the regular player base and people retraining to an extreme(or partial) to counter them. Take that into account and reassess I am sure the outcome will be different. Now again it's worst case scenario.

Yeah, not to tell either of you how to do your jobs. But, I do wish admin's would fine more and close less often. Closing does nothing but end the conversation without actually reprimanding the guilty.

Seriously now. What is the worst case scenario? A few low PR characters fighting way up lowering the scores of everyone else.

If my rewards go down due to a drop in scores by 2-3M, so be it.

Well, that is part of the game. While the top players would see any CB leave, the lower players, and especially NCB players in the now "dead zone" may actually get a bonus.

Overall the amount of total score in the game will stay the same. It is just where the scores go can change.

I see no problem as long as someone is not abusing the rules. Having a period of time when scores are a bit low may actually make things a bit fun. I have no idea for certain but at this point, any change to CB may be good.

Heaven knows we have not had anything for a long time.

Oh I'm saying right now if I have to close this thread money is going to TP.

Well I applaud that, that's better than it has been.

It's already done it's job. I see a character with 1/4 Rubicon's MPR farming him and I'm sure more will follow.

http://www.carnageblender.com/inspect_opponent.tcl?opponent_id=122661

Yeah, bet I'm making Magnus's day.

I am really now quite confused.

I CM'd an admin and was told the admins are taking a "you make your bed and lie in it" approach with respect to name calling in the forum threads.

So what is it? Will there be actually policing the threads for name calling and fine assessed, or a make your own bed approach and shutting down threads when the admin feels like it?

Well, Nat is new, maybe it's a new era!!! But, on a serious note, I really think fines should be used more ... i don't want to say willy nilly, but something like that.

Awe, Ranger, did you have to put that in MY thread?

At the moment we only have 14 full or partial score generators. Draining out about 3.5 mil score from all of the top will slightly more than double that amount and take away maybe 5-10% challenge bonus from several characters. I doubt we will see a sudden drop of 3.5 mil from the top 30-40 characters from extreme strats. Also for all of those characters who are generating score right now, it wouldn't be detrimental rather it would be beneficial for them for the score to be drained. It wouldn't hurt their growth at all and other chars near them would get put more in line with their own growth.

Yep, Magnus is the one for now. That is quite the sucking sound I hear. It took only two levels of characters to pull siphon score down from 8M+ chars to 800K char(s). That is impressive. I'm with Ranger. This is kind of fun to watch.

I think that's a perfect conversation to have with an admin (I suggest NS for extra clarity)

Yup, now that I think about it Nat, I might do this for 6months, make some money, let scores get boosted. Wait two months, let things stabilize, then run an NCB. Should be prime time.

Well before those 6 months are up you'll see something that I have planned that will be far more extreme than something like an unbalanced strat. It will make it a great time to run an ncb.

Alright, I'll keep myself posted and save 200USD or so incase I need emergency BA.

up until I ruin all the scores during your NCB with a specialized strategy. All within the rules of course ;P

i do have to ask how RoBF and RoS teams are OP ._. or did i read it wrong?

Yeah "unbalanced" not imbalanced. He meant that I'm easy to farm because I'm not using a well rounded strat. Not that it is over powered.

They have the ability to fight upwards with very little NW.

Tanks generally have a much higher PR compared to MPR due to the NW of their weapons.

Teams that use the RBF and RoS require as a generality little NW other than a few enchanter boosting items like a corn.

There are outliers like Damage Control with its 300M NW in AC but that is an extreme.

Actually tank armor all add less PR than mage armor.

But one really does not need to upgrade mage armor as much NW wise as tank armor.

Generally.

NW =/= PR increase.

NW does not increase PR?

That is news to me.

An what will happen to the rest of us in the ranks while dealing with the aftermath of. Strats like Titan's?

Let me explain. NW has no direct bearing on the PR increase except in the case of weapon +. First case is that NW into weapon x adds no PR ever. Second is that all PR added from armor is added from the number of +. It doesn't matter the nw it only matters the PR weight of the item which is how much PR it adds based on the minion PR.

For reference, you would need a +67 HoE with an absurd amount of NW into it in order to get the same PR increase from a +10 corn which has a nw of $6,107,385

We will continue to Blend. We will continue to get rewards although they may be a bit less due to the overall drop in scores.

For those climbing the ranks, this will likely be a boom, while it will be a bit of a bust for those already there.

I think we need more characters near the top ranks and hopefully this can be a way to get that done.

Zen, you for one won't be dealing with anything at all. No matter how low scores go, you won't be affected at all. The only way you could be affected is if you somehow got more farmers.

Then perhaps I misunderstand how rewards work.

I thought they were primarily your PR vs their score. Even for those in the 6 regeneration range that holds. CB is if their score is > your PR.

If everyone's score drops, including those you beat, will not your rewards go down? 2-3M drop in scores could make a noticable difference as I currently see when I fight someone with a 5M score vs a 8M score.

Zen's PR is too high for him to receive CB.

No, your PR vs their score only determines challenge bonus. If you aren't getting a challenge bonus then your PR vs their score doesn't matter at all.

Titan,

Read my last paragraph of my post just above yours.

Score barely barely affects the base rewards, right Natasha?

I don't know.

I fought Incompetent Misfits 3 times and averaged 300 xp per minion.

Then fought Results (6M score) and averaged 180 xp on 3 fights.

But that was just answered Ranger.

If Zen isn't getting a Challenge bonus now, he still won't be getting one when his opponents have a lower score.

most of us have believed that base rewards were determined on this basis but you hinted that this was incorrect to me more than a year ago. so what determines base rewards if it isn't opponent score vs. your pr?

GL,

I know about Z's lack of a CB, ever.

I am typing about less rewards due to an overall decrease in the score of his opponents.

Your PR, opponents PR (maybe MPR don't remember), as well as other things that Natasha can choose to release if she wants.

Your opponents PR (Or VPR, or NW or the like, IT's all a bit grey to me to be honest)

That's why Misfits give larger rewards.

And upping your own NW and PR increases your rewards as well.

Doesn't happen.

Score only generates Challenge Bonus.

Exactly, you boost too much and too many will shoot up to the top ranks. Competition is one thing, abusing the system to enable others who otherwise wouldn't make it there is another. I have a problem with that Nat.

Exact opposite of what you said in chat yesterday... Am I right Josh?

Challenge bonus is (their score) / (your PR).

Base rewards are something entirely different. Figuring that out is an exercise for the reader. It's also something that hasn't changed (to my knowledge) since the early days of CB1.

People used to talk about it often.. I think there aren't many left that understand the rewards system. I figured it out long before having access to the code, but I don't think I ever put it in the wiki.

Staff shouldn't, either :)

Does that include Nat, b/c she's obviously not looked at the code for it... and she's one of the few that truly have it refined.

Concerning what you were talking about yes what I said is opposite which is true. For what Nat has in mind it's totally different. Kind of like the deal you had going on with you NCB Construct(JS07/) with the 1600BA boosts with Seeveral ppl on Big Exp Times(clever), it's part of the system and I have to say ok but I do not have to agree with it one bit.

Loopholes are fine and dandy but honestly I feel it shouldn't constantly be this way. If not for the though Ranger has, some change, ANY change is good. Fine make it more difficult in some way because you abused a loophole. That one was a one person benefits kind of thing. Now make it to where and ENTIRE set of NCBs can benefit, it's forecasted? Screw it might as well open up the NUB to Vets.

TL;DR. Only read the last few posts.

Anyway, +1 to me for also understanding base rewards. I mapped it out on a google doc, too. Lol.

There is a big difference between players actively changing their game environment through their own actions and someone with control over the game just giving handouts.

Nat semantics what you are planning to do is really not that much differs in that without you doing what you are planning the masses would still not have it.

The big difference is it's within any players powers to do such a thing and it falls inside the parameters of the game.

Never said it didn't Nat but it took someone of a higher caliber to figure it out. Not only that said person would be the one "Passing along" the Bonuses. Might as well do it inside of your new appointment so no one that doesn't have a N*B can benefit as well.

NS is right. The base rewards system was thoroughly discussed in CB1 and figured out fairly well before challenge bonus was ever implemented. In fact, my memory may be messing with me, but we may have even been told at one point how it was determined by Jon. Assuming it hasn't changed, the information is out there.

Zen:

Titan: Really, Seriously you need.....nvm no use trying.

I don't know what Nat's plan is but I don't think it really requires high caliber thought to at least think of ways to try and work the system. There's at least 2 loopholes to the current system that I can think of off the top of my head, and they did not require a lot of thought. One however has already been done before from what I hear. People just don't consider them an option, have the funds, or the coordination required to pull them off.

Similarly, they don't always work or end up being allowed. The hard cap to BA is actually the reason I finally stopped playing CB for good. Six months prior to NS using an NCB transfer while hoarding BA, I had hoarded BA for 2 months and did a trial run and liked what I saw enough that I was going to hoard for a full NCB run and burn the last week or so when NS took it a step further with the NCB transfer and Jon set the cap ruining my plans.

This is my first time actively playing since then and I'm shocked more things haven't been tried to get around the system because they are out there.

Sorry :(

I actually found it really hard at the time to use a lot of BA.

Don't get me wrong. It was awful burning through hoarded BA. When I burned 62 days worth of purchased BA it was the worst thing ever. I only ever planned to do it for another run because I didn't have the time to not miss BA because of school and was going to burn 4 months of purchased BA at the start of summer. Eventually I was just away from CB long enough I didn't think to come back until now.

+2 to me and +5 to Dos for letting me have access to his google doc as he as making it xD.