AdminNightStrike no sane CB player buy NUB sellout (in General)

Hi,

as i can't public reply to FS/WTB Threads im pulling the FS/WTB thread from AlbinoBear over here.

Obviously a NUB is selling his stuff, and nobody will ever know whether it was a NEWBIE or some old player that only pretended to be a NUB ..

But well, thats actually not my business, whats more interesting is that an Admin posted into that thread an more or less interferes in a way that i wouldn't quite see as the right way ..

FS: 43M CBD (in FS/WTB)
AlbinoBearMarch 3 8:32 AM EST 2$ for 1M CBD
paypal direct payment only no CC
**Note: This user currently has a New User Bonus.

AlbinoBearMarch 3 1:22 PM EST 28M left
**Note: This user currently has a New User Bonus.

AlbinoBear11:12 AM EST still 28M available
**Note: This user currently has a New User Bonus.

AdminNightStrike1:14 PM EST I would hope that no sane CB player will buy from a NUB sellout.


So the big question is: "Why not buy from NUB sellouts?" Really? Or do you just want to drop the price more?

.. sounds like you blame the NEWBIE? Why don't you blame the NUB CB$ bonus?

i'd like to see some discussion here!

Nothing in the rules against that.

I don't much care for the apparent witch hunt initiated by Nightstrike here. We have no idea if this guy is a multi or not, so jumping to conclusions and attacking this guy is a very bad show from an admin. In my opinion it was incredibly rude to do what he did, and if the situation was reversed and I was an admin this comment would be removed.

By the way, I bought money from AlbinoBear, and I'm not apologizing for it.

Because that encourages more NUB sellouts.

If there's no market for them, there's no reason to make them.

Yes, we all know something like a rolling bonus would fix this, and a whole heap of problems CB has, but a Rolling Bonus is even less liekly to appear than an EXBow fix. >;)


Multi or not, why play for under 6 months then try to sell out?

I could encourage other real life people I know to play for 3-6 months, just to sell out, and they wouldn't be multis.

I don't think that's the issue at all.

The issue is purely using a NUB to sell out.

I also severley doubt anyone running only a 3-6 month NUB, with it's reduced BA cost and increased CBD reward, has really had the time, inclination or need to spend enough RL dollars to warrant a sell out at the end.

End of the day, if AlbinoBear really wanted to sell out, he could always have just stopped playing for a couple of months, then sold his gear off later, when his bonus time had run out. Who knows, maybe the break would have reignited any interest he might have had in the game.

Unless he'd played CB before of course.

And I don't see the warning as being in bad form at all. If you disagree that purchasing CBD from NUB sellouts is a bad thing, then you can go ahead and buy anyway. ;)

Don't know don't care. It's not against the rules, it is technically possible under the current system, and the warning message in FS/WTB posts was placed there BECAUSE it's allowed, as an alert to potential buyers rather than as a warning not to break any rules. Buyers are then left to make their own choices.

If Nightstrike wants to ban NUBs from selling out, he can put a ban on it. It is well within his power. Posting on a restricted thread warning players not to buy from this particular seller was just plain wrong.

The real solution to the problem: end the N*B!

Maybe the warning put in place just wasn't doing enough to discourage the problem?

Then change the rule. Don't attack a new player when he's doing something perfectly legal.

We have had this disucssion numerous times.

All with the exact same outcome as this one.

Some of us believe one should not buy from someone during their NUB and I personally will not buy during that time.

Others do and it is perfectly legal in the CB system.

There is no good answer other than to get rid of the mechanism that allows new players to accumulate such riches in CB in such a short timeframe.

What rule LB?

It's legal, it's just not liked/wanted.

Sure, we could make it illegal to xfer cash when in a Bonus Period, hey, I'm *all* for a game mode of CB that has absolutley no tranfers (like a permenant Tournament!), but if we still wanted to give people the freedom of choice, but realised the problem was there, and still hurting a tiny playerbase, why would it be out of line to highlight the message?

Sure, NS could have just made the font of the warning larger, or bolder. But he chose to add his view as one of the developers of the game instead.

And NUB sellouts are bad for the game.

/shrug

The entire N*B system is obsolete and counter-productive. It should have been replaced by something else much more palatable years ago, but alas, it wasn't.

On the other hand, I find the whole idea of allowing direct player-to-player cash-for-gamestuff (be it CBD, items or whatnot) which eventually does lead to "sellouts" (NUB or otherwise makes very little difference to my virtual taste buds) to be quite distasteful at the concept level.
So, I can't really say I blame him for being a little more than miffed, but that certainly doesn't quite excuse the outburst.

If NS believes the warning to be insufficiently strongly worded, he should change the verbiage to something more appropriate to his tastes, not single out one lone sellout event because he was in a foul mood at the moment. While not an excessive abuse of power by any means, it still was at least technically an abuse of power.

If NS believes NUBs should not be allowed to sell out at all, then he should codify it as a rule from now on (be it code-enforced, punishment-enforced, or both), not a personally tailored warning against one single individual, and punish NUB sellouts that do not heed the warnings in the future, after the new rulings are well into effect and common knowledge.

It wasn't as if NS stopped any transfers, or removed the ability to sell CBD.

The only thing NS did that any of us couldn't, was post his message in the thread, rather than make a message here in General about not purchasing form NUBs selling out.

It that *really* and issue?

Any of us could have made a general thread about this. And if the FS/WTB thread had shown the cash decreasing as it was being bought, maybe someone might have...

Only insofar as it could have been handled better in just about any other of the possible ways.
I certainly can't quickly thing of how it could have been realistically handled worse.

Better, worse? What's the scale?

Sure, AB could have been reset/banned. I say that would have been 'worse', but then that would be against the rules, and we'd all rile against it! ;)

If you or I had made a general thread and said;

"You seen the latest NUB sellout? Don't Buy! Isn't it time we had a RB!!!!"

Would that have been better or worse? If an Admin had made the thread? If NS had just made a thread about it?

We do have a General thread now about this issue. I'm quite certain (well, maybe not as the playerbase has shrunk quite a bit) that at last chat, the majority of plyers tohught NUB selling out was a bad thing.

I'm quite sure that's why the warning was put in in the first place. ;)

Well, if you have to ask, on a scale of worse first to least bad last (starting with borderline unrealistic scenarios):

- total banishment (unrealistic, since no rules were actually broken)

- same as below but also temp forum ban and/or chat gag for NUB (still unrealistic)

- targeted message by only still-live developer//admin in specific sellout thread of just one NUB sellout implying (possibly accidentally) that you would have to be nuts to trade with the NUB (offending not just the NUB but everybody who might have traded or wanted to trade with him in the process)

- general chat thread about NUB sellouts and importance of not encouraging them, posted by only still-live developer//admin, namedropping this latest one in the OP or even linking to the sames thread

- same as above, but by generic admin

- rules change, banning of future NUB sellouts with some arbitrary post-NUB cooldown

- changing the wording of the auto-message from "**Note: This user currently has a New User Bonus." to "**Note: This user currently has a New User Bonus. It is strongly recommended you do not help him sell out"

- general chat thread about NUB sellouts and how they should probably be handled unofficially, posted by only still-live developer//admin, WITHOUT any namedropping by the OP and maintaining a civil tone with a polite discussion on the subject

- same as above, but by vanilla admin, no namedrops by any CB staff at all

- poll regarding the still-playing population's opinion about what we should do (if anything) about the "NUB sellout issue"

...to name but a few possibilities in the initially-mentioned order.

Exactly, so let's not jump on someone who is doing it. That behaviour is especially shameful coming from an admin.

A developers of the game reiterating not to do something that's not liked/wanted in the game is shameful?

Really?

I'd rather say that a dev ignoring something that is not wanted/liked in the game to be shameful...

Yes. Really.

Let's reiterate: what the seller did is NOT against the rules. It may be frowned upon, but it is perfectly legal. The seller did not break any rules. He didn't.

If an admin - not only an admin, but one of the owners of the game - wants to ban trading of this sort then he is in a unique position to do so. Until then, posting rude messages on restricted threads discouraging legal behavior is a very, very bad show. Not only is it an abuse of admin power, it's just downright disrespectful.

We already discourage this legal behaviour...

That's what the message in the FS/WTB thread is for.

The message is to inform buyers. If we choose to ignore it and purchase anyway, well that's just fine. It's not against the rules.

If you want to discourage it, crashing someone's FS thread is a very unpleasant way of doing it.

To inform buyers, to discourage the sale...

Agreed, both parties can still do what they please.

I suppose if the message as is isn't doing enough, we could always got back to the original bold red version.

But that kicked up a bit of a stink back in the day. ;)

Still, as I said then, and as other have said since and now, it's the NUB that's the problem, not what people want to do with thier time here.

But the NUB is never going to change, so we do what we can to limit the damage.

If that's more Bold and Red, then so be it...

In the specific way in which it happened ?
Yes. Really.

It would be even worse than a clerk from the bank coming over with a megaphone and a camera crew for every foreclosure and forced eviction, lambasting the former inhabitants for their sudden inability to keep up with payments, then broadcasting it.
Not the best of analogies nor similes, but I hope you get my drift.

If it's not liked/wanted in the game, it might bear reiterating from somebody WITHOUT executive powers.
If somebody WITH executive powers feels the need to do it, he should do it in general, unambiguous and non-personal ways, like changing the text of the warning message or altering the rules of what's allowed or not.

I think its HORRIBLE that a NUB should be able to sell out!

I came back after YEARS of being gone, and resurrected my ORIGINAL Account and struggled big time. And I've heard rumour of people coming back and using a new ip and new email to SOLEY make a NUB and sellout for USD

I don't care that they want to quit and sell out, I sold out all my stuff years back when I left BUT I never had a NUB to begin with, And I came back to MY account and struggled with a NCB.

I hate the NUB/NCB! And my personal opinion is that NUB should be abolished and the ones around shouldn't be able to sell out.

I mean I could have came back under a different email, and my Ip changes every time i reboot my router, I could have started a NUB and NEVER been caught but I DIDN'T and it pisses me off that people have the thought to come back soley to make a NUB and sellout.

Get ride of the N*B system! I know for a fact that a minimum of 3 NUB started the exact same time i started my NCB, and they are now battling in the top 20 and I had to buy a character and borrow gear from multiple people just to get there as NCB provides no bonus to money. and now 1 of those 3 is selling out.

just MHO.

Then I owe NS an apology for not making the general thread before he posted.

I'll be happy to admit I saw the sale thread when it was posted, looked, checked out the retired charcater with nothing on it, noted the remaining NUB time, filed it away as a NUB sell out and moved on.

I contemplated making a general post, but in the end didn't.

As it would has reulsted in nothing but hot air.

So NS, sorry I didn't mention it first, and made the point as someone witout executive powers.

I also returned after years away with no NUB. I completely dislike the NUB itself. I have absolutely no problem with a NUB sell out. In fact, if someone wants to keep quitting and selling out that's fine by me.

If it's going to be an available option in the game and a viable way to earn some income, who am I to be upset with them?

I'm sorry but the point is moot when the game is stagnated

OK my take as a NUB.

Should NUB sellouts be allowed?
--if anyone is allowed to sell items for real money then everyone should be able to

Is it legal under current rules?
--Yes

Is it right to make a NUB and sellout purely for monetary gain?
--Not IMHO but that is just an opinion

Is it ok (legally or morally) to make a new account for such purpose?
--NO! NO! NO!!!!

Does the fact that a NUB is selling out mean he was doing something wrong or immoral?
--No, there are tons of RL reason to sellout--as a matter of fact leaving the country is a very good reason (that seems familiar to me somehow but i can't place it) for selling out

Does an admin (or anyone else) have a right to voice their opinion about NUB sellouts?
--Yes, and I personally think that everyone should

Should an admin post in the FS/WTB thread (which noone else can post in) to voice their opinion?
--Absolutely not, no rule was broken therefore admin powers should NOT be used

Bottom line--
A) if you don't like NUB sellouts then don't purchase from them, flame them in a thread such as this one, yell it from the roof tops, whatever
B) power should not be used to promote a personal opinion...see A for more appropriate reactions

Both of these are with the rules as they stand now..if the rules are changed then that, of course, changes everything

meh to much to read.

I spend lots of time in this game, but yeah i made a account so i could get 100ish dollars after 4 months of playing.

So now i can buy a pack or sigarets and pay the electra for my computer.

just pick 2 movies and get my money....^_^

=x on the other hand albino you can just give me all your monies :D

The thing I find funny in this game is the whole Multi thing. If someone creates numerous accounts for the purpose of gaining USD from selling his/her CBD, is quite funny. Not worth it at all in my opinion.
Say someone gets 150M CBD from their NUB run, they sell out for 300 USD. Wow, so that pays what... my electric bill..... LOL. Spend your time looking for a real job if your hard up for money.

What if they run 5 at once, spend 30min a day on each and make 150M each?

That's 300*5 = 1500; yeah that's like >$4 an hour; but that's pretty appealing for a twelve year old for something they can mindlessly do while they lay around the house and mess around on the internet.

True, maybe for a kid it may be worth it. However, I know most people on here are well over 18. Therefore if this is the way they want to make money...... then I find that funny. The amount of time this game demands to compete, is not worth making money. There are plenty of other ways to spend your time making money.

If I were to multi, I'd run 10 accounts at once, on different IPs, have a macro to fight for me, and just sit it next to me while I watched tv or studied. Anytime I'd get a bot check just answer it really quick and go back to whatever I was doing. I could probably make 2000M CBD this way in six months. However, at that point, I'd also probably have flooded the market so much CBD would be selling for like $1 per M or so.

Assuming all the player does is sign on, burn ba, and get off. Its more like $9-10 an hour.

Takes about 2.5-3min for me to burn BA. So at the start 15min a day, by the end 9min a day. We'll just say 15min a day for all 180, thats 45 hours.

I think something more like 200mil is made from a NUB. 1mil a day fighting + tattoo selling. That's $400

$400/45 = ~$9/hr. For something you can spend 3min at a time doing. Not a big deal, and not something keeping anyone from working a job, or looking for a job as previously stated.

And my whole view of it is, while I don't agree with multis and if caught think they should be banned, I can't be upset with someone doing it.

I understand the need/want of money and if a game is going to have a NUB, allow items/cash to be sold for USD, and there is a demand for it, how can I find the person doing it at fault? I can't. The ONLY person/people to be upset with and fault are the one's who have control over it being an option in the game at all.

I didn't read the whole thread... but my view on this is that with a community this size, it would be easy enough to disallow this. Add to the rules that NUBs are not allowed to sell out, and if they choose to do so the day after their NUB has expired then great! If that rule gets someone to stick around for six months, or even just play for a few months and then log in once their NUB has expired, then we have just caused someone to commit to CB for a 6 month time period.

You may say that this would be abusable via contests and such, like a CB black market or something, but we are talking about 100 active players that probably don't want to risk getting banned... I mean what has kept us all from creating multis? ;) (Just a little joke, don't take me too seriously). If the contest is a numbers contest, then have an admin pick the winning number. If they are so eager to have a contest, then they could donate it to someone that could run the contest for them and pick the answers/results.

I have always maintained my dislike for NUB sellouts. This game wasnt created so someone could come in, use up their NUB and sell out, just to leave and restart with another account.

^^

That't why I came back to my original account and started a NCB rather then 'cheating' and starting a NUB.

Just because you left your account abandoned doesn't mean you can start a new one, its still technically multi.

Thank you ranger you took about everything I was going to say right out of my mouth and saved me 4 pages of endless typing. :D However, I wasn't aware there was a new rule put in place where one can just make a general thread and call out an admin for his or her actions like this!!?


FINE PRINT:
However if that can of worms is now allowed allow me to be the first to go make a really long post doing the exact same thing!! :D *mumbles something about fairness and consistency*

We need a special rule for that?

Apparently if people are allowed to suddenly do it. Always been my understanding if you don't agree with an admin it's best handled in CM or PM never in a thread...

I don't think admins ever really punished calling out admins...

Hell NS used to call out people all the time.

Are you trying to tell me if I make a post calling out every admin for everything I've ever had an issue with you'd have my back when SOMEONE closes my thread for NO REASON!!!?

No, I blame myself for not making CB a more interesting, captivating place.

If there's any way we can help, I'm sure most of us would offer to do it!

I've offered to help improve the game, and have had talks about it, but nothing ever comes of it

NS you can email me on my google account, I have gotten bored of the game and have not come back because of said boredom. We have had long talks about CB on many occasions, let me know what i can do, or how i can help.

Well, if it was *only* programming skills that were needed, I'd love to help. But as I see this, it's much more about 'how' and 'what' to improve .. there are just too many opposing ideas/suggestions/problems.
So until there is someone that just *dictates* which changes will be made, probably nothing can be done ..

End the N*B!

the N*B isn't bad at all .. it's a good thing !
.. without i could never catch up, and without NUB-sellouts there would be much less money to buy for big weapons up in the top ranks .. so it would be more like mage-blender?

.. as you see, NUB good/bad .. it's a point of view

The N*B is a bad thing. It's not that LB doesn't think people deserve a chance; but through the way that chance is given and achieved.

shorten the NUB, i say 90% is too much, 50% seems about right

Beating an old drum but Nat and a few others thought up a really good alternative to the NUB.

As far as this being a captivating place please this is one of the most addictive games I have ever played. Even after selling my char and items I still find myself coming back to read the forums. Now could it use a bit of sprucing up via new options, updated GUI/Items, New Items etc hell yes but not being captivating.......that statement to me fails NS. You have made this game better and continue to do so, just because it is slow does not mean progress is not being made or that it is not noticed. It is and I for one am glad to have you here I just wish I could be truly helpful to you and the Admins but coding is not something I can do.

For the Multi/NUB sellout well there will always be some to slip through the cracks it is to be expected so we have a few choices:

Make it legal to stop the complaining

OR

Be glad it is not worse and try to keep it to a minimum with community effort bolstering the Admins.(As long as it is done in the right way of course.)

Disclaimer: At least this is the way it seems to me and I am sure some will not agree. To those who don't agree let's agree to disagree and not screw up this thread eh?

NUB sellouts are legal. People just don't like it.

LB: True I should have been more clear on what I said. I meant the Multi Aspect being legal, most see NUB sellouts as Multi's anyway so go figure on that........

Yes, that is a problem. Jumping to conclusions and all that.

Thanks, Z.

As for the rest... you are saying as GW just did in his other thread to formally allow multiple accounts?

How do you prevent one person from using one account to fuel another?

Agreed! /kill and ! to the complainers.

You let them do it till they get burnt out and tired of it. >_>

I never had a nub, but my first ncb made it to the top 10 (score wise which I find to be the best estimate for who the top tier teams are.) For the most part it was a dry run without a cash injection, just a little extra bought CBD to pay back loans quicker then it would have taken me to earn it (Could have done it the long way, but I don't like owing people money if I flake out and leave)

I sold out after I grew tired of holding the top 1-2 spots (stagnation?), just so I can make my money back. Still sell my CBD from time to time. Its hardly a way to make money at all, I get a few steam games that are on sale or pay for stuff through paypal.

Even with a nub, that's a lot of time spent just for a rather small payout after 4-6 months. Quite honestly not worth the effort if you ask me. Sure maybe if you ran 10 of them at once you'd see some profit, but I personally don't see that happening. It'd be a different story if we saw this happening all the time, but we don't, this is maybe the second time I've seen a nub sell out since I came back to CB.

Unless you can absolutely prove without doubt he's for sure a multi, then it just discourages any real new players from the game entirely. We can all buy and sell CBD to our hearts content, fair is fair to allow them to as well. Frowned upon or not, if its legal its going to happen.

What is the difference between selling out just before the NUB is up, and the day after its up? What about a few weeks, maybe a month, heck what if he forgets about the game and comes back in a year and then decides to sell? What is the difference? Nothing at all. The money came from the NUB cash bonus to begin with.

Take out the cash bonus, give everyone the same cash bonus, and let the nubs still get their BA for free, and reduce the cost of NCB BA prices and I think this would be far less of an issue. Just my opinion.

I've rambled enough for now, so yeah.. I forgot my point.

Xeno - look at it a different way. What if you had 160 BA for each of your 5 parties. How many people would fight the BA on each party, then transfer all the cash of 4 of them to 1 of them to eternally boost their weapon damage? You then hit a situation where to compete, everyone has to have 5 teams in play.

This is the exact reason, actually, why Jon killed defensive win rewards (I discussed bringing that back at length.)

Not to mention it will make everyone hit the number cap really quickly and force either a new server or a reset.

Well from burning just tourney BA and regular BA I can tell you that's more then a handful for me (and I have all the free time in the world.. well almost), and kudos to anyone who has the patience to do more then that. I can't imagine juggling 5 characters let alone 2 just so I can make CBD to either super boost my weapon or sell it all off. I personally wouldn't do it, and I highly doubt most would anyway, its more time invested then anyone really needs to. But hey if you could do that, then I'm sure someone will.. and more power to them for having that kind of dedication. Though I feel like that is a whole different discussion entirely, so I'll stop there.

What I was talking about initially, was more making a nod to nub sell outs, and how I don't really see a difference with them then regular player to player sales. The only difference is the NUB cash bonus, and that is it, making it far easier for a NUB to sell out at the end and make 'some' cash rather then not so much cash.

But like I said, what's the difference with him selling out while he still has a nub, or waiting a little while till it expires then sells.

Lets take a real example here, Lets say I actually played during my nub. I took it all the way to the 5 or 6 month mark then I kinda got bored with the game and left it alone, forgot about it, then came back and realized I had about 100m worth of stuff on the account to sell. Would I be considered a NUB sell out then? No, but all the cash was gained during that time, so technically yes I would be.

As frowned upon as it is, I see no real difference other then the aforementioned NUB cash bonus making it easier to gain money to sell faster then regular players, and even then my question is this: Who is to blame, the NUB, or the cash bonus they receive? Not to mention the obvious market for CBD buyers/sellers.

I really don't see it as a "money maker" besides pocket change every couple of months, and even then it's not really worth it in my opinion.

As suggested, if you would like to stop NUB sell outs, then stop them from being able to do so in the first place or bring the NUB cash reward down closer/equal to the average player and just allow them the free BA to have a slight advantage over a regular NCB for legit newbies to have some help.

Even to someone who is a complete newbie to the game that comes in with a NUB and spends any sort of time in the game and forums knows that CBD is worth money, and they (as a NUB) make more of it then anyone else. The problem is being created from the get go, and you can't for sure label every single NUB a multi just because they decide to sell out towards the end for a small amount of money. Which in my opinion is a total waste of 6 months of time for such a meager sum, even if you were running 20 at once.

Not to mention this type of thread spurs from such a thing.

Xeno - I read your long posts, but my reply is rather simple. I meant what I said. I don't blame sell outs. If the game was better, no one would care. There'd be a ton more people signing up and staying with it.

It bothers me is when people quit, regardless of tenure. It hurts. It's sad. On many levels. NUB sellouts, and people buying from them, just add insult to injury, both to the game, and to me.

NS, you know I love this game. But I've stopped fighting a couple of times.

I started a NCB recently, after a long break, got the bug back hard! And loved it. But three months in, I was hit by two nasty viruses, one after the other, that laid me up in bed for weeks, where I slept most of the day (and night) away.

Right smack bang in the middle of my bonus run.

Well, that was three months ruined, and I've not had the enthusiasm to pick up the character or fight with him since.

I've got an idea for another NCB, but I'm not sure I can bring myself to run it. I've got a new baby on the way, and the commitment required for a bonus run just won't be there becuase of it.

We all know the answers to get more people staying.

New changes, and a rolling bonus.

I understand that RL impacts dev time (hell RL impacted just my playing time!), but if we want people to stay in the short term, and CB to grow in the long term, we need both. Just the way it is. :(

If there's any possible way to get others (not myself, my coding experience was a course in C++ at least 7 years ago!) working on the code to make changes, I'll do anything I can to support it.

The moment I win the Lottery I'm sending a lump of cash CBs way for new equipment, hosting costs and dev time.

But so far that ellusive Euromillions win has evaded me. :(

We have a brilliant community here, of many talented people from around the world. Lets tap that resource for thebetter of the game! ;)

Yeah I know NS, it sucks when people quit for whatever reason, I agree with you there. I'm sorry if I offended you in any way. I was just making clear my personal stance on the NUB sellouts, long winded as my posts get some times. But I do understand where you are coming from a little bit better now.

I too love this game and I'd love to see it keep growing and getting better, I believe we can all agree that. Many of us in the community would do anything we could to help make it better and keep new players rolling in.

We as a community have brainstormed many times to try to come up with ways to generate income specifically for dev time. What we need is your help there to get such changes implemented and then work from there.

I would run a NCB specifically to generate as much cash as I could to sell at the end, to fund some Dev time. ;)

Hopefully I wouldn't be alone in that outing! :P

well, I'm probably staying here till I'm 20+, so I can then Code together with the people for CB! :P