The gods must be crazy (in Changelog)


AdminJonathan June 3 2009 10:05 PM EDT

Half of all rares will now be granted as rewards in battle, in addition to cash and XP.

(That is why cash rewards have been decreased a little.)

To start things off I've put 20 amulets of junction into the reward pool.

DrAcO5676 [The Knighthood III] June 3 2009 10:06 PM EDT

Quite an interesting change in my opinion! Will have more say later on after some testing ^_^

Godpanda June 3 2009 10:06 PM EDT

OMG

Django June 3 2009 10:07 PM EDT

Sounds Great!

ceslis June 3 2009 10:07 PM EDT

This sounds like fun =)

Picasso June 3 2009 10:08 PM EDT

Woah.... a whole new dynamic to the game. Should be fun! =D

QBOddBird June 3 2009 10:08 PM EDT

AWESOME. :D

Zenai June 3 2009 10:08 PM EDT

This is Awesome! A great bonus for Vets and Newcomers alike! Great Change Jon!

Lefty June 3 2009 10:11 PM EDT

How can be obtain the rares?

AdminJonathan June 3 2009 10:11 PM EDT

Godwolf reminded me in chat: the only condition to be eligible is, you have to win the battle. :)

[SIBT]Gardiner Amarth June 3 2009 10:14 PM EDT

Good to see another outlet for rares besides auctions. I like this.

Godpanda June 3 2009 10:15 PM EDT

Because someone else will ask:

<Godwolf> Jon: Does the chance of a rare go up based on your BA regen rate?
<Jonathan> gw: yes

Fatil1ty June 3 2009 10:17 PM EDT

no love for forgers?

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 3 2009 10:18 PM EDT

woohoo! i have wanted this since the end of store camping. great change!

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 3 2009 10:18 PM EDT

and was that a coke bottle that hit me on the head?

Godpanda June 3 2009 10:19 PM EDT

ATTENTION FORGERS

This is a BUFF forgers, if a small one. If everyone fighting is making less gold, than the NW you add per BA is worth more. Get it? Got it? Goooood.

AdminJonathan June 3 2009 10:20 PM EDT

Because people are estimating a larger drop than it was: the cash reduction was 1/5.

Talion June 3 2009 10:24 PM EDT

Did the price of BA go up? If it did, then this change sucks (in my opinion). If it didn't and it's just a coincidence that the price of my BA went up at the same, then it's not so bad is all I have to say.

I am always against giving out more stuff more easily. So that is why I am not really thrilled about this change.

Just my opinion though.

three4thsforsaken June 3 2009 10:25 PM EDT

might help our little tattoo problem...

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 3 2009 10:27 PM EDT

no ba price change here. it isn't more stuff, just a different distribution of the same number of stuff if i understood correctly. it also isn't necessarily more easily either as the money is still being removed, just from everyone over time instead of the purchaser in auctions at once.

Colonel Custard June 3 2009 10:27 PM EDT

Will it only display if play-by-play is on?

Not that I expect it to have happened, yet...

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] June 3 2009 10:36 PM EDT

Yay for forgers yet again...

Rawr June 3 2009 10:37 PM EDT

"ATTENTION FORGERS

This is a BUFF forgers, if a small one. If everyone fighting is making less gold, than the NW you add per BA is worth more. Get it? Got it? Goooood."

Fatil1ty June 3 2009 10:38 PM EDT

it's not a buff....lets be serious. I am tired of people saying that this and that is inadvertantly a buff to forgers. How bout an ACTUAL FORGING SPECIFIC buff!!!

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] June 3 2009 10:38 PM EDT

I dont see how that helps, if we still add the same NW, and they still wont allow us to raise the %, how are we gaining anything? Srsly

QBOddBird June 3 2009 10:39 PM EDT

Talion - coincidence, my BA cost didn't increase. :P

three4thsforsaken June 3 2009 10:39 PM EDT

Rawr, there isn't enough data to support that statement. We don't know that a small buff for forgers might be completely outshined by the item rewards everyone else is getting.

It is a very small buff in a very indirect way, probably not big enough to really change how forgers function.

QBOddBird June 3 2009 10:40 PM EDT

pau1 - there is going to be less cash income in the game, which means it is more difficult to increase the NW of your items.

Forgers can

1) add more NW in a given period of time then fighters (well, could already, but moreso now)
2) gain even more liquid profit off of each BA than fighters now

QBOddBird June 3 2009 10:41 PM EDT

It'll also be interesting to see if the reduction in cash rewards increases the CB/USD ratio, given that each individual CBD is now 20% more valuable. :P

Talion June 3 2009 10:42 PM EDT

"no ba price change here." <- Thanks dudemus.

The bad: Any schmuck can find an item he would normally have to buy, deal for, or wait for and bid on in auctions.

The good: Increased chances of new CB2 clicking addictions.

Like I wrote, not so bad (since BA prices haven't gone up) but nothing I am thrilled about.

QBOddBird June 3 2009 10:42 PM EDT

Here's another example, pau1, that will clear up what I'm saying further:


Say fighters had their rewards dropped to where they got 10-15 CBD per battle, and forgers stayed the same. I think we'd all call that a buff to forgers, because their income comparatively spiked.

This is that, on a much smaller scale.

Tyriel [123456789] June 3 2009 10:43 PM EDT

Just curious, Jon: Why?

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] June 3 2009 10:44 PM EDT

If you're saying we can add more NW faster than they can add NW through BS is bogus, BS will always be faster, even if you arent getting money as fast. Our NW growth will not change with this CL. Hence, our income will not change either.

QBOddBird June 3 2009 10:45 PM EDT

Read my 10:42 post, pau1.

Godpanda June 3 2009 10:46 PM EDT

You should be thrilled about this change. This is a fantastic change (Forgers, QQ moar please. You just want Jon to give you 5000% increase to your forging efficiency. The headline of this game is not Forgeblender. If you insist on playing a certain way, don't complain when you DO get buffed, but it's just not as big a buff as you'd like)

This change adds some flavor to the game. All the complaining about cash is silly, because everything will shift down. Yes, BA prices may need to be toggled, but do we really have to waste such a FANTASTIC change by complaining about every little thing you don't like?

This is the kind of thing that keeps people interested.

Fatil1ty June 3 2009 10:46 PM EDT

why not make some items forgable only. it's boosts a lot of business for forging and makes it more profitable!

QBOddBird June 3 2009 10:46 PM EDT

I know you're smarter than that, I wouldn't say anything as stupid as that you can now forge faster than the BS. C'mon man.

I'm saying you make more value per CBD than fighters (already did) but to a much greater extent now.

So when he earns 50k a day, and you can add up to 400k a day, you are forging faster than he can add NW. Does that make more sense?

iBananco [Blue Army] June 3 2009 10:49 PM EDT

Do regen rates affect spawn rates per BA?

Cube June 3 2009 10:52 PM EDT

^See: Godwolf's post

Colonel Custard June 3 2009 10:55 PM EDT

JS:
"<Godwolf> Jon: Does the chance of a rare go up based on your BA regen rate?
<Jonathan> gw: yes"

It is an indirect buff to forgers, except that I think the fact that forging doesn't have a random chance of item drops negates the buff. Maybe it should be spending a BA has a chance of giving a rare... maybe the Vulcan comes down and gives you a hammer-type weapon when he's pleased with your progress. Free MHs for forgers? That might make it more interesting, too, if some rares only spawned in battle, and others only spawned in the forge... um... house?

I like the idea, though.

Fatil1ty June 3 2009 10:56 PM EDT

now THAT ^^^^ I like!!!

BHT June 3 2009 10:58 PM EDT

Just out of curiosity what are some negatives about this change?

Only thing I can think of is the decrease in item values.

Godpanda June 3 2009 11:05 PM EDT

Well, assuming NOTHING else changes (Which I doubt), the only negatives are currently:

- BA absorbs more of your liquid earnings.

- Saving up to hire minions is even more difficult.

- Upgrading items will be a slower process.

Basically, anything that would get worse with less is a bit worse (Getting items and selling them will keep your intake up for awhile, but less money in the game means less money for everyone XD)

QBOddBird June 3 2009 11:08 PM EDT

buying your BA, while posing greater potential reward, cuts down on your liquid earnings for the day by a much greater amount now.

Kefeck [Demonic Serenity] June 3 2009 11:09 PM EDT

Wow. interesting, anyone get anything yet?

{Wookie}-Jir.Vr- June 3 2009 11:11 PM EDT

Hmm I think this change is good because it lowers liquid earnings for EVERYONE across the board, so there is no real imbalance, and then it rewards those who are more active and fighting more... I like it I guess.

Rawr June 3 2009 11:15 PM EDT

Kef - two people have received AoJs from fighting as of now.

Demigod June 3 2009 11:16 PM EDT

I know one amulet was found (like a golden ticket). But how does it arrive on our screens? Is there an additional screen that we can't accidentally skip while burning BA?

Godpanda June 3 2009 11:17 PM EDT

@ Jon:


Any chance of lowering the AH fees? Perhaps minion hiring fees?

Money sinks are fine. But I think this would decrease the amount of money in the game itself by a rather large amount. Though that could be by design, of course...

Kefeck [Demonic Serenity] June 3 2009 11:19 PM EDT

Thanks rawr :).

Also i would like too say i recieved the third one :). I now have two AoJ's.

(too bad it doesnt show in transfers anywhere).

Lefty June 3 2009 11:25 PM EDT

What are the odds of finding a rare?
Will it counter-balance with the amount of CBD lost?

Rawr June 3 2009 11:28 PM EDT

grats

and 3 aojs spawning within an hour and a half?

good bye item values

Lord Bob June 3 2009 11:30 PM EDT

Hoe. Lee. Crap.

This is one heck of a change. Time will tell if it works. I hope it does.

I'm hoping this is the first in an array of (good) economy tweaks.

TheCakeIsTheTruth June 3 2009 11:30 PM EDT

Any reason for these not to be recored in tranfer logs or maybe in your recent battles?

Also could anyone take a screen shot when they get something, so the rest of us know what to expect.

Lord Bob June 3 2009 11:31 PM EDT

Oh, question.

By "Half of all rares" does this mean auction spawns are reduced by 50%?

*hopes it is*

Lord Bob June 3 2009 11:34 PM EDT

Also, I'm not sure if this should be hidden or not, but...

What is the drop ratio?

Little Anthony June 3 2009 11:36 PM EDT

would i get a notification if i get this special rewards in battle? < i barely check my inventory>

Fate June 4 2009 1:43 AM EDT

might bring up usd to cbd ratio.

Windwalker June 4 2009 1:50 AM EDT

AoJ in the bag ;) Thanks Jon hehe

FailBoat[SG] June 4 2009 1:57 AM EDT

Its obviously not going to be a very large percent. I just burned 160 BA and got nothing, although I just now saw this so I would of been amazed at having an item in my inventory afterwards. Thank you for this change and maybe we can all see it for what it is, a buff.

More work for the forgers, due to there being more rares and less money to spend at the blacksmith, and a buff for those of us who fight alot.

three4thsforsaken June 4 2009 2:01 AM EDT

I don't know. Before, my rewards never have hit below 500. Now they hit in the 300s every so often. :/

QBOddBird June 4 2009 2:02 AM EDT

LB - I was interested in seeing how that half of all rares thing would work, too.

My guess is that every time a player is awarded a rare, another one spawns in the AH.

That would be pretty cool.

Soxjr June 4 2009 2:02 AM EDT

Not to be on anyones side or anything, but isn't it that if there is less money for blacksmith fees there will also be less money for forger fees? I mean I haven't been able to use a forger or the blacksmith lately, but if I have less money then I don't have the money to give to forgers either, or at least it will run out then sooner or later they won't have that many jobs... just my though..


Now back to the change.. I personally like it.. Makes burning ba more fun now hoping for a drop.

QBOddBird June 4 2009 2:16 AM EDT

"Not to be on anyones side or anything, but isn't it that if there is less money for blacksmith fees there will also be less money for forger fees? I mean I haven't been able to use a forger or the blacksmith lately, but if I have less money then I don't have the money to give to forgers either, or at least it will run out then sooner or later they won't have that many jobs... just my though.."

If you have less money, you're more likely to give it to the forgers and get your weapon increased for 70% of the difference, instead of giving it to the BS for 100%.

And yeah, if they're not forging FOR someone, there's less for forge fees - but they add more NW than they could have gotten in 2 days' worth of fighting.

Wizard'sFirstRule June 4 2009 2:25 AM EDT

A Heaume [5] (+6)

I suddenly found this in my inventory, can an admin check where it comes from?

QBOddBird June 4 2009 2:27 AM EDT

[CB1]Gun (Tim) 24.242.253.217 PainKiller (Fasunaus II) A Heaume ($23784) Apr 15

Damn, you are lazy.

Wizard'sFirstRule June 4 2009 2:28 AM EDT

my first thought was that I missed a battle drop... oh well. /carps myself.

{WW]Nayab [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 4 2009 2:32 AM EDT

There really is no reason to complain about the amount of CBD received after a fight as anyone who gets a rare can sell it if they don't want it! I personally think this is a brilliant idea.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] June 4 2009 2:39 AM EDT

Ok, I have a question. Would it be so wrong to have forgers get in on this too? Why can't we "create/mutate/find" items during our forging gigs?

QBOddBird June 4 2009 2:43 AM EDT

Only if forging efficiency gets reduced by 20% as well. ;P

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 4 2009 3:00 AM EDT

Nice!

Only question. What happens if you don't a have a free inventory slot and a battle reward drops?

Or should we now always make sure we have at least one space space before spending any BA?

Rawr June 4 2009 3:06 AM EDT

Then you get an item taken AWAY!

BHT June 4 2009 3:36 AM EDT

What happens when the game is so flooded with rares that everybody has so much there is no need for auctions or FS/WTB.

Wizard'sFirstRule June 4 2009 3:39 AM EDT

the drop rate would decrease.

QBOddBird June 4 2009 3:43 AM EDT

Are we assuming here that more rares are going to drop because of this change?


'Cuz I don't see where Jon said that.


Half of all the rares that would usually spawn are granted now as rewards in battle, from what I interpreted. (which is exactly what he said, with like..2 words different.)

PearsonTritonRaveshaw June 4 2009 3:48 AM EDT

So basically, the items that would normally be spawned in auctions are given "free" to a select few players who just get lucky? I don't like the idea of the entire CB community being taxed just so a few people can say "hey cool, I got something for free" and dump it in auctions to make a 100% profit.

Daz June 4 2009 4:00 AM EDT

Is it just me, or has fighting been slower, and the main page not loading all the time since this change?

It could just be my internet, or something unrelated thats causing it, though.

BHT June 4 2009 4:01 AM EDT

I was just assuming that, cause all that has dropped has been AoJ's and he spawned 20, which otherwise would not have spawned.

Good point though, hopefully 50% of what would normally go to auctions will be dropped and the other half will be auctioned like normal. Let's just hope it works that way and there is no more "creating" items that would not otherwise be there.

Underage Drinking June 4 2009 4:26 AM EDT

is it still possible to get an item if your inventory is full on your active caharacter?

AdminJonathan June 4 2009 6:23 AM EDT

> hopefully 50% of what would normally go to auctions will be dropped and the other half will be auctioned like normal.

that's how it works.

AdminJonathan June 4 2009 6:27 AM EDT

> is it still possible to get an item if your inventory is full on your active caharacter?

yes

{WW]Nayab [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 4 2009 6:31 AM EDT

Awesomeness!
Does that mean it goes to a spare character or does it go in under a different category?

Marlfox [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 4 2009 6:59 AM EDT

Far better than I could have hoped for, for a change. Way to go, Jon! :)

Wizard'sFirstRule June 4 2009 7:00 AM EDT

Rave. I don't think it matters that it is the "lucky few" that gets the item. In the long run, everyone that fights should have a fair share. (Central Limit Theorem dictates that)

iBananco [Blue Army] June 4 2009 7:16 AM EDT

Actually, the CLT says that the distribution is approximately normal. What guarantees fair amounts to all is the fact that the variance of the average number of rares one gets in a given period of time goes down as 1/n.

lostling June 4 2009 7:25 AM EDT

love this change :) thumbs up jon! now all we need are elemental stuff :)

lostling June 4 2009 9:04 AM EDT

is it just me... or does anyone else find it weird that the team you beat are giving you the "prizes"... shouldnt jon appear in like a puff of smoke to do it?

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] June 4 2009 9:06 AM EDT

The "Gods are pleased" with your fighting, and they give the item to you.

lostling June 4 2009 9:08 AM EDT

ah ic :)

Sickone June 4 2009 11:19 AM EDT

I don't get it, isn't 1/5 rewards loss kind of... harsh ?
I earn around 300k-350k a day, so that's 60k-70k less each day... if I get a rare "for free", depending on what I get, I might get as little as 100k or as much as 4 mil on it, with an expected average of below 2 mil... at the current prices.
But since we can also expect prices to drop by AT LEAST one fifth too, if not more (since there's less CB$ generated, and people attempt to valorify their drops more often than not)... I'd say getting one rare on average per month would probably be a NET LOSS compared to the previous system.
CAN we expect to get, on average, around one rare per month of fighting ? More often ? Less often ?

QBRanger June 4 2009 11:21 AM EDT

Sickone,

Do not forget the fine rares which included the Elven Stiletto, the Exec, the Katana. All worth less then 10k base.

And all the other "rares" worth almost nothing as you pointed out.

However, this is interesting to say the least.

Sickone June 4 2009 11:22 AM EDT

If it would have been far more interesting if the CB$ rewards would have been left totally unaffected :)

Sickone June 4 2009 11:26 AM EDT

It's not like we really need less CB$ rewards in fights, just look at the CB$ prices in USD, you can see we're actually quite strapped for liquid assets... between the ease of disenchanting (at 50% NW loss, with cash almost always used up in other CB$ sinks like different weapons), BA costa (especially on NCB runs) or extra minions hiring costs, the freely available CB$ supply has been kind of shrinking, I don't know how well the meta-economy would handle a 1/5 drop in CB$ influx (since auctioning off the rares is not CB$ generated into the system, it's just CB$ traded from one player to the other).

AdminShade June 4 2009 11:33 AM EDT

$6,492,388,430 total liquid assets

This amount is in between 1/6th and 1/7th of the total NW of the game. Imo still plenty...

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 4 2009 11:35 AM EDT

the $10 price might be more plausible soon.

BadFish June 4 2009 11:36 AM EDT

What a crazy change!

Demigod June 4 2009 11:59 AM EDT

Angel of Death may finally sell. :p

three4thsforsaken June 4 2009 12:08 PM EDT

I would've like this change much more if it resulted in more items spawning in total or an general increase in rewards.

This goes beyond me just being selfish, I feel that's what the game really needs.

Increasing the spawn rate will help offset all the tattoos and salvage yard weapon lost and will help somewhat maintain stable values for items so EVERYONE can use them.

If anything, I feel this change has moved things even more towards USD favorable as it is going to be much much more difficult to get base rares.

Sure, many people will sell their drops to auctions, but many more will unlikely not. I'm talking about all those casual or new players whom don't talk in chat and forums, whom don't notice their drops or simply choose to keep them.

We're going to see an increase in the value of everything while at the same time receiving less rewards (yes, I'm assuming the majority of us won't pick up anything of large value).

BHT June 4 2009 12:26 PM EDT

Now all we need is:

Amulet of Luck: Increases chances of item drops on win.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] June 4 2009 12:57 PM EDT

Don't know what to think of this change.

Reduced money supply but less cash sinks too.

Slight buff for those who don't maximise their rewards relative to those whom do.

Introduces gambling to CB for the 1st time... shall I buy some BA or not ;)

Judging the impact on individual profitability is impossible.

Hurrah for randomness, I guess.

Cube June 4 2009 1:36 PM EDT

The Gods are crazy

QBRanger June 4 2009 1:38 PM EDT

Camping was gambling.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 4 2009 1:47 PM EDT

There was a heavy skill aspect to it however...

If poker isn't gambling, then neither was camping

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] June 4 2009 1:47 PM EDT

Camping was a game of skill, endurance and scripting.

AdminJonathan June 4 2009 2:06 PM EDT

> All worth less then 10k base.

What they are worth base is irrelevant. What _is_ relevant is what they sold for in auctions (which was an important cash sink).

Daz June 4 2009 2:15 PM EDT

"Introduces gambling to CB for the 1st time... shall I buy some BA or not ;) "

I seem to recall a gambling area in CB a long time ago, back when you got BA for voting for CB. Maybe I'm getting old and losing my memory :P

AdminShade June 4 2009 2:15 PM EDT

In other words, we get a bit less cash, but we keep cash in circulation because it doesn't get drained away from auctioneer auctions.

seems a fair trade-off and fun!

PearsonTritonRaveshaw June 4 2009 3:15 PM EDT

I think the old system worked better. The entire fighting community is being taxed (1/5th of all money awards) so a few people can get lucky and make a 100% pure profit when they sell it in auctions.

The auctions system works fine just the way it is. Why change it? If someone needs an AOJ, they should bid on it in the auctions instead of being taxed for someone else to win it and sell it. Skip the middle man.

Neo Japan June 4 2009 4:08 PM EDT

you say that now, but wait until you get a rare or 2 from just fighting. its soo worth it.

Colonel Custard June 4 2009 4:24 PM EDT

"I think the old system worked better. The entire fighting community is being taxed (1/5th of all money awards) so a few people can get lucky and make a 100% pure profit when they sell it in auctions."

Unlike the intentional unrealistic redistribution of socialism, the pure random aspect of the game should cause fairness in this case to asymptotically approach 1.

three4thsforsaken June 4 2009 4:29 PM EDT

How about anything central bank wins a bid on is put into the reward pool?

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] June 4 2009 5:10 PM EDT

three4thsforsaken 4:29 PM EDT
"How about anything central bank wins a bid on is put into the reward pool?"

That would totally debunk the whole purpose behind Central Bank. Plus, all it would do is create an infinite loop. CB wins a bid, throws it in as a reward. Finder throws it in auction, CB wins it, rinse and repeat.

Sickone June 4 2009 5:25 PM EDT

"How about anything central bank wins a bid on is put into the reward pool?"

If you mean, after disenchanting it to base first (even stuff that can't be normally disenchanted, like tattoos), then yes, sure :P

"That would totally debunk the whole purpose behind Central Bank."

Which is what, exactly ?
To artificially hold prices of items higher than the community is ready to pay for them, by both functioning as a cash faucet and an item destroyer, thus creating an artificial scarcity for that item, when more often than not, it's the value of the item that's gone down due to changes rather than too many items of that type being around in circulation... Oh well... I guess in a twisted way, it does work... but I don't really have to like it, do I ?
Problem is, rares have stopped being rares a long time ago : the rares are "normals", and the normals are "junk", almost exclusively used by tournament characters ; this has been the case since before I started playing, now if anything it's more true than ever.

Lefty June 4 2009 5:30 PM EDT

"Problem is, rares have stopped being rares a long time ago : the rares are "normals", and the normals are "junk","

That being said, people always complain about how items aren't available on the market and are too hard to find, so they want more of them out in the market. It really has an effect on the Supply vs Demand part of the economy.

Rares should become less and less common with this change, and it could be seen as a good thing. People will just have to start paying more for the "good" items that should be uncommon to begin with.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 4 2009 5:42 PM EDT

how will rares become less common? the same amount will be introduced this new way as the old way, it is just that half will now be treasure type finds.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 4 2009 5:58 PM EDT

"What they are worth base is irrelevant. What _is_ relevant is what they sold for in auctions (which was an important cash sink)."

Jon's right. The last two Kat's in the AH sold for under 8K!

>;)

QBOddBird June 4 2009 6:03 PM EDT


dudemus 5:42 PM EDT
how will rares become less common? the same amount will be introduced this new way as the old way, it is just that half will now be treasure type finds.

Because a lot of those rares will likely be found by players who quit a week later (new players.)

And if someone finds something they want, they just hold it...straight to the player, never enters the market.

QBJohnnywas June 4 2009 6:05 PM EDT

And that's different to what we have now in what way?

Stupid hoarders.

Sickone June 4 2009 6:09 PM EDT

That doesn't change the fact upgrading anything except a FEW of the rares is a waste of CB$, unless you are a tournament character.
Take it as you will - either the rares are too rare, or the rares are too powerful compared to the alternatives - either way, anything other than the rares is not really an option.
And that makes it "not good" when there's a shortage of them.

How about we also introduce base rares in the shop on a PERMANENT basis, but at DOUBLE (or even triple) the price "Mr. Chairman" would be willing to pay for them ?

GnuUzir June 4 2009 6:12 PM EDT

Wow some people are never happy =D

I like the change Jon.

And

Like all of the good changes, I did not see this coming...

AdminQBVerifex [Serenity In Chaos] June 4 2009 6:15 PM EDT

Holy Cow, awesome!

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 4 2009 6:19 PM EDT

"Because a lot of those rares will likely be found by players who quit a week later (new players.)"

can new players, or anyone for that matter, not buy those same rares from auctions under the old system and quit a week later?

if we are into possible scenarios, might not someone finding a rare and scoring a cash boost increase interest and stickiness of the game as well?

AdminTal Destra [G6] June 4 2009 6:22 PM EDT

what happens if a tourney player gets one? can that character use it?

QBOddBird June 4 2009 6:47 PM EDT

"Because a lot of those rares will likely be found by players who quit a week later (new players.)"

can new players, or anyone for that matter, not buy those same rares from auctions under the old system and quit a week later?

if we are into possible scenarios, might not someone finding a rare and scoring a cash boost increase interest and stickiness of the game as well?



My point by that and the preceding sentence was that in both scenarios, the items never touch the marketplace. I didn't even theorize what would happen after that; everyone's conclusions on my statement thus far have been based on their own assumptions.

Little Anthony June 4 2009 6:48 PM EDT

not only NUB makes more money but maybe more BA so that more chance for items? :D

Untouchable [The Knighthood] June 4 2009 6:53 PM EDT

true that brother Anthony

AdminTal Destra [G6] June 4 2009 6:57 PM EDT

but, you have the option of buying BA, and the chance to get one goes up by ?/20. 6/20 has a better chance then 7/20 because of less BA to spend.

Bolfen June 4 2009 7:03 PM EDT

hmm...I think I agree with the notion that this will reduce the overall number of rares. I actually think it will reduce the number of rares significantly (say 25%).

While it's true that some users (including New Users) will find the rares and enjoy the cash infusion, it still means that rares will be going to random people instead of people who desire the rares. That means the marketplace is becoming less efficient by adding a manual step to the supply/demand process. Previously 10 out of 10 rares would automatically show up in the auctions. Now 5 of 10 will show up automatically, and the other 5 might show up or might not.

That doesn't mean this is a bad change. It's a very interesting one.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 4 2009 7:10 PM EDT

ob, your comment was in response to my question about them becoming less common. now you are saying that they will not enter the marketplace instead?

i would agree that they will not enter the market, but i do not think that equates to them becoming less common.

Bolfen June 4 2009 7:20 PM EDT

I meant harder to get.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 4 2009 7:49 PM EDT

i was actually thinking about the fact that most players set buy now prices that this would actually make things easier to get than the auctioneer. i guess we will just have to wait and see how it pans out.

i also think this is a much needed boost to those who buy their ba everyday and use most of their natural regen. once again we will have to wait and see how it pans out, but anything that rewards loyalty is a very pleasant change in my book.

Mikel June 4 2009 7:50 PM EDT

what about if someone attacks you and loses? Winner get the item then?? :P

Marlfox [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 4 2009 8:04 PM EDT

Oh, and, this change gives Todd an unfair advantage.

Wizard'sFirstRule June 4 2009 8:13 PM EDT

"...That means the marketplace is becoming less efficient..."

Yes, you include a manual steps, but there isn't a significant transaction cost that would deter people from taking that step. I don't think the marketplace will be less efficient by any meaningful amount, if at all.

lostling June 4 2009 9:09 PM EDT

How about making a bulk of the items spawned tattoos? This would kinda make sense :)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 5 2009 3:15 AM EDT

"but, you have the option of buying BA, and the chance to get one goes up by ?/20. 6/20 has a better chance then 7/20 because of less BA to spend."

Has that been stated anywhere? Or is just conjecture on our part?

Eliteofdelete [Battle Royale] June 5 2009 4:34 AM EDT

It has been stated by John in the thread.

Timberwolf June 5 2009 4:35 AM EDT

From up ^^^ there somewhere:

June 3 10:15 PM EDT
Because someone else will ask:

<Godwolf> Jon: Does the chance of a rare go up based on your BA regen rate?
<Jonathan> gw: yes

QBJohnnywas June 5 2009 4:39 AM EDT

People will moan about this, the increased chance of catching something with the ba refresh rates nearer the top. But if you look at it from a gameplay point of view, if you fight more, grow more you get a better chance of catching a rare. Which is how it should be; go and play the game more, get better chance of rewards. If that's a problem for anybody then fight more!

Timberwolf June 5 2009 4:54 AM EDT

I'd guess that the adjustment is just to compensate for the lower BA regen.

The way I see it the only people that have any advantage at all are those purchasing BA. (not counting the monetary loss of the BA purchase)

three4thsforsaken June 5 2009 5:00 AM EDT

Well, if anything this benefits non-NCB characters, because they can actually afford buying BA on a daily basis.

Bolfen June 5 2009 7:18 AM EDT

so has anyone got one yet? just wondering how it will look...

{WW]Nayab [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 5 2009 7:24 AM EDT

There is another thread for it Bolfen, it is under general in the forum.

QBRanger June 5 2009 8:57 AM EDT

Personally I would rather have the better cash rewards than a chance to get a random item I could or could not need.

Overall, IMO, this change is Meh. Something that for some people is nice, for others not so nice.

I would hope to see something really effecting gameplay come this changemonth.

Something like fixing the exbow, or rolling bonus. Or a new spell/skill.

Something game changing, like the last big change-SG.

AdminNightStrike June 5 2009 9:32 AM EDT

Food for thought, Ranger...

It's posts like yours above that make working on CB a horrible, horrible thing that nobody wants to do.

I think the next feature I might work on is a "forum ignore" option to block posts from certain users so I just plain don't see them.

QBRanger June 5 2009 9:39 AM EDT

Wow,

This is the best change since CB ever ever came into being.

A spectacular one that really makes playing great, fantastic and outstanding. Changes the whole dynamic of the game. Makes me reevaluate my character and how I want to fight. A huge strategy changer.

I cannot have an opinion on something and post it if it contradicts anything that anyone ever made?

C'mon NS.

Allow people to disagree.

My post was nothing saying CB was bad and you took it far too wrong.

Fine me if you want, you do need to grow up and accept the fact not all things in CB are great changes.

You have done outstanding things for the game, and all of us in CB appreciate it.

But posts like yours, especially from an owner of the game summon me back to when you would do the exact same thing, before you obtained a stake in CB.

This change, to me, is meh. Something ok, not great, not bad. Just average. A change.

I was hoping for something a bit more, like fixing an item that is obvious broken and has been for over 2 years. Crucify me on that one if you must.

Wizard'sFirstRule June 5 2009 9:42 AM EDT

I have an amulet of junction? I don't remember seeing that.

Lefty June 5 2009 9:42 AM EDT

I was just thinking...

Wouldn't it make more sense to fix all the bugs and inbalances (People seem to find them) BEFORE new things are added?

The new things could just add more bugs to the list...

Cube June 5 2009 10:06 AM EDT

Nightstrike just spent three weeks fixing bugs...

QBRanger June 5 2009 10:08 AM EDT

Yes he did, and we all greatly appreciate it.

However, to rail on me for not getting on the "this change is the best things since the wheel" bandwagon is 100% wrong.

And there are a few other imbalances that need to be adjusted.

RE: exbow for one.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] June 5 2009 10:11 AM EDT

This is only the start of the changemonth Ranger. There is no need to get all worked up. There is bound to be a lot more changes right around the corner. I too am looking forward to an exbow fix as well.

This is just a nice little start to the changemonth.

QBRanger June 5 2009 10:13 AM EDT

I agree it is a change.

But to have NS go all off on my like this is one of the reasons players dislike this game.

To see the owners get all freaky on a player for stating his opinion is not conducive to keeping people happy and content in a game like this.

Cube June 5 2009 10:41 AM EDT

Ranger, I wasn't replying to you. I was replying to Emotion. Sorry for the confusion.

QBRanger June 5 2009 10:48 AM EDT

Sorry Cube,

That is what I get for assuming.

I am just really put off by the post of NS.

Perhaps I can chalk it up to stress, and other things. But in no way did I state anything to degrade the game, or make it seem this change really sucked and was uncalled for.

I just said it was ok and got slammed rather hard for it.

Just like others have gotten slammed for rather innocent things.

If my posts, such as saying a change is mehm is that bad to get a developer to really go off on me, then something horrible is wrong with the dynamic of the developer/player interaction.

Since I remember NS, when he was a lowly player, typing the exact same things. Only a lot harsher, and one time harsh enough to get a forum ban.

My how things have changed.

AdminJonathan June 5 2009 10:52 AM EDT

> I'd guess that the adjustment is just to compensate for the lower BA regen.

Right. Everyone who spends all his natural BA will have an equal chance.

Cube June 5 2009 10:52 AM EDT

Yeah, well keep in mind it's hard to tell someones tone through the forums. He probably took yours too harshly, and you likewise.

I could read your post as constructive criticism, or I could read it as ranting. I could read NS's post jokingly, or seriously annoyed.

And yes, when we are under stress we tend to tank things the wrong way. I hope this post didn't sound too preachy... =)

Neo Japan June 5 2009 10:54 AM EDT

if you only posted just ONE post, be it negative, that's one thing Ranger, But you keep repeating yourself like the drunk college girls I prey on when they have a bad night at the bar and I swoop in to "listen" and take em home.

limit posts to 5 or 8 and pay for post afterwards? I'm not serious about this, but I bet Ranger wouldn't be every 3rd to 5th post if this were true.

Cube June 5 2009 10:56 AM EDT

Well, he did only have one critical post at the time.

AdminJonathan June 5 2009 11:01 AM EDT

> Overall, IMO, this change is Meh.

I'm a little surprised that when I add a change that clearly benefits vets, the best I get from you of all people is "meh" and complaining that no big strategy changes have been made in the first five days of change month.

But only a little. :)

QBsutekh137 June 5 2009 11:02 AM EDT

Sorry, I can't see any joking in NS's post. He emphasizes the word "horrible", and is potentially threatening, to boot: "You kids be good now, otherwise no one will want to program for you!"

If someone doesn't want to program, then that person shouldn't program. In any case, proceeding to program and then proclaiming what a "horrible thing" that work is because someone posts a lackluster opinion is petulant. I've personally never asked for random drops, and neither has Ranger (that I can remember). So if the randomness and lowered money rewards all balance out anyway, who cares if some reactions are lukewarm?

Dark Dreky June 5 2009 11:05 AM EDT

/me forum bans NeoJapan.

Dark Dreky June 5 2009 11:07 AM EDT

Oh wait.

NS, can you please implement that "forum ignore"? I'll pay.

Because I am rather disgusted at the moment.

QBsutekh137 June 5 2009 11:07 AM EDT

But Jonathan, assuming (as I state above) that the reward reduction cancels out the random drops, why would you expect anything but "meh" from a vet? It's same-ole, same-ole, and if anything, potentially confusing. People have been asking for random drops, well, forever, even while just about every aspect of randomness has been removed from the game. This change brings back some randomness in an even-steven fashion. The only part that isn't "meh" is that atavistic adrenaline pulse one can't help but get when the random reward drops (hooray for animal brain!).

But I didn't figure you would expect that purely-animal response to really shake the world of mature, thirty-something veterans...would you?

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] June 5 2009 11:08 AM EDT

I have to say this is a definite benefit to both vets and forgers. Challenge bonus has no effect on your chances of getting a rare, as such ncbs and people who fight down lower for the increased cash lose out a lot on the reduction with no benefit from the rares. The people at the top have the same chance of getting one. Forgers have not lost any ability to forge nw as such they are now better than fighting at 100% challenge bonus whereas before they were about the equivalent to fighting at 80% challenge bonus.

All in all I think this is a good change.

Cube June 5 2009 11:12 AM EDT

I reread it. You're probably right sutekh. My point remains though; tone through words is often vague. NS took Ranger's post wrong though, guaranteed.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] June 5 2009 11:17 AM EDT

Stop saying it helps us forgers. It doesnt.

Fighters had a drop in rewards, but you also have the opportunity to get a rare drop and sell it in auctions to make up for the lost money you would've gotten before this change. It's not like forgers gained efficiency or experience per cycle. Forgers do not have a chance in hell to get this 'random drop'. Unless we get lucky and get the rare when we dont feel like keeping 4 BA in our sidebar and fight with it.

I'm all for this change, but I wish people, who don't forge, would stop telling us what helps forgers and what doesn't.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 5 2009 11:20 AM EDT

I can't see how this is a bonus to vets.

No fighter gets a bonus.

BA regen and item drop chance has been normalised, and as long as everyone uses all the BA they can, everyone overall has the same chance to grab a free Rare?

It might even be more advantagous to very new NCB runner (stock up on 1600 cheap cheap BA), NUB users (free BA) and old vets with very low characters (cheaper BA cost than the higher regen rates).

But maybe not. ;)

Also, 'Vets' quite probably already have all the items they want, so random drops which are most likely of no use bar auctioning probably won't offset the loss to battle rewards that could be used to up existing gear.

Especially if you get a Katana for your now reduced rewards. >;)

QBsutekh137 June 5 2009 11:26 AM EDT

Katana, heck, I still have no bids on my AoJ (that dropped for me) in auctions. And I certainly have no need of a second AoJ! *smile* All rares equal is cash for me anyway, so it's pretty much even-steven, like I mentioned.

I also agree with smallpau -- it's even-steven for forgers as well.

I actually still think it is a fun change, just some spice, but it really doesn't have much of an effect (certainly not for veterans...). Perhaps it will help with player retention, though -- a new player getting a drop will think, "fun!", much like the first time I got lucky and grabbed a corn from the store back on CB1... Wasn't even camping, and got lucky!

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 5 2009 11:27 AM EDT

those who fight all of their ba, day in and day out will stand a better chance of getting a drop.

sporadic players or ones who miss much of their ba will have a lesser chance.

before this change, there was no real benefit to hitting every ba as you could still be passed up easily by a new n*b team. prices will likely go up as an effect of the less cash as well. so the rares will likely sell for more than they do now.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 5 2009 11:28 AM EDT

my aoj sold...to central bank for the 2m i had set as the price. should that have happened?

Cube June 5 2009 11:29 AM EDT

It's an advantage to Vets because the NUB doesn't compensate for the rares received.

As for compared to forgers, you'd have to do some calculations based on past auction history. For the effect on the price of CB in USD you'd also have to do some calculations as well. I imagine Jon kept it pretty even though.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 5 2009 11:32 AM EDT

"It's an advantage to Vets because the NUB doesn't compensate for the rares received."

Maybe, if we looked at this in 5 years time for a new player coming in.

But then the new NUB would get free BA to fight and from then gain the same chance at landing a Rare as everyone else.

But it's no advantage *now*. Unless the chance isn't normalised across the Regen Rates and 6/20 has a higher chance than anyone else.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] June 5 2009 11:32 AM EDT

It's not really helping Vets too much either. NUBs get 10/20 BA refresh compared to a Vets 6-7/20 BA refresh. NUBs get more BA throughout the day, that includes bought BA as well. Unless the calculations are made to allow everyone equal opportunity no matter the BA refresh they have.

Cube June 5 2009 11:32 AM EDT

Also, when I say advantage to vets, I mean someone playing now versus someone who starts a year from now. No retroactive benefit of course.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 5 2009 11:33 AM EDT

;)

In that case, who knows what will change in a Years time.

Maybe we'll even have a rolling bonus by then. ;)

Cube June 5 2009 11:34 AM EDT

'Unless the calculations are made to allow everyone equal opportunity no matter the BA refresh they have.'

You both need to search better =)
It says on this page in about four places or so that it was normalize for the refresh rate.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] June 5 2009 11:35 AM EDT

Yea, i assumed there was, but i wasnt about to read through 200 posts to find it, =P

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 5 2009 11:37 AM EDT

" AdminJonathan 10:52 AM EDT
> I'd guess that the adjustment is just to compensate for the lower BA regen.

Right. Everyone who spends all his natural BA will have an equal chance."

i just ran an ncb recently, and it is much harder to use all of your natural ba down low even if you are very dedicated to doing so.

in the 6/20 zone, i can be gone over 8 hours and not miss any. in the 10/20 you can only be away just over 5 hours before you start missing ba.

it is not an amazingly great advantage, but we really had no others before other than being able to get more sleep as we were passed up! ; )

Cube June 5 2009 11:44 AM EDT

The advantage doesn't come from the regen rate though.

If this was implemented at the start of the game NWO (1,362,575)
would have far more rare drops than the NUB who spent 100,000 battles to get to the top, translating to more cash.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] June 5 2009 11:49 AM EDT

I'm sorry you feel this way NS but that is the lot of the web game dev. Maybe Jon can give you some lessons in thick skinnedness :P

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] June 5 2009 12:02 PM EDT

This is why it benefits both vets and forgers.

In the first place this is not a buff to anyone really. There are still the same amount of rare items being introduced into the game as there were, but there is now a 20% decrease in $ rewards across the board.

By vets I don't mean people who have played a long time, I mean those people who have characters in the top region who do not run a ncb.

The vets have a benefit because for 1 thing they will be buying all their ba. A ncb will most likely not be buying all of their ba. This gives them a higher chance of getting rares. For another thing, most vets do not have any sort of challenge bonus. Most people who are running ncbs or smaller characters have a significant challenge bonus. A 100% challenge bonus means twice as much rewards. But if you take away 20% rewards to both a 100% challenge bonus person and a 0% challenge bonus person and they both have the same chance of getting a rare, then the person with a 100% challenge bonus person is penalized twice as much.

This means that this change was a significant normalizer of rewards.

This change does not help NUB users at all. There is no NUB bonus toward their rare % chance of a drop and yet they take the same 20% reduction to their rewards as well, even when the NUB is supposed to be focusing those rewards to make up for all the lost time.

These are the reasons why this is a buff for forgers.

Forging has always been about maximizing the amount of money you can make. That is the first thing I must make clear.

Before this change forging for the most part was equivalent to fighting at something around 70-80% challenge bonus in terms of your reward.

Even if you were to say that the rare drops will give a fighter the equivalent rewards as before the change after he auctions it off, and this is at a 0% challenge bonus. A fighter who is fighting at 100% challenge bonus will still be losing out on all that reward $ from the 100% challenge bonus. This would mean that he would be getting the equivalent reward of an 80% challenge bonus from before.

Since forging a good item would be giving about the same rewards as fighting at 80% challenge bonus this means that the forger and the fighter at 100% challenge bonus are getting more or less the same rewards, whereas before the fighter would have been getting more rewards.

The other reason is that since less money is being introduced into the economy more people will be wanting to use forgers because they have less to spend. An increase in demand for forgers will likely allow them to increase their forging rates.


One last point I would like to make. I do not believe that the rares will give the equivalent reward to fighters at 0% challenge bonus since a significant portion of those rares are worth less than 500k in auctions or even worthless like the katana and elven stiletto.

Marlfox [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 5 2009 12:12 PM EDT

Come on, this change is sweeter than a Butterfinger, and you know it. ;)

00 June 5 2009 12:13 PM EDT

on another note, the gods must be crazy was a good movie.

BadFish June 5 2009 12:15 PM EDT

That movie was freaking hilarious.

QBRanger June 5 2009 12:30 PM EDT

Jon,

I need to restate it I think.

I am very pleased you're back and doing stuff for CB.

I am incredibly happy NS has been fixing bugs.

This change, while possibly helping vets, is just there. I lose 20% of my cash rewards for a chance to get an item. Overall it is a sum-zero for vets as I see it. I would like to have the certainly of better rewards to be able to buy those items I really need. Instead of finding one and having to go through the process of selling it. But that is just me and my opinion only.

NUB's actually get a small advantage as they get free "get more" BA. Not all vets purchase all their BA, so overall, NUBs that use all their BA may have a very slight advantage. Big deal :)

Sut was right in that I never asked for a random drop feature, and it is nice.

But by "meh" I meant it is a give or take type thing for me. I would love CB with or without this feature.

I know it is early in changemonth, but there are things that I would love to see implemented. Something that is game changing. A real shocker per se, like SG and the EF was.

And perhaps a fix to the exbow and perhaps a rolling bonus. Just my dream list.

I never meant to imply you and NS were not doing anything or enough for the game.

But NSs post just really caught me off guard and was very nasty. After I all stated was my honest opinion. And it was nothing bad or nasty, just a "meh".

TheCakeIsTheTruth June 5 2009 12:32 PM EDT

So what are the chances of getting a rare? And what would the chances be of getting 2 in a row?

AdminShade June 5 2009 12:32 PM EDT

This change, while possibly helping vets, is just there. I lose 20% of my cash rewards for a chance to get an item.


True it is a chance, but if an item is generated every other day, with 228 active users from the past 7 days, you'd get an item once every 1.5 years ;)

QBRanger June 5 2009 12:37 PM EDT

Shade,

There are more than 170 items generated a year.

Do not forget all those base Katanas, ESs, Execs, etc...

Goodfish June 5 2009 12:40 PM EDT

Out of curiosity, what factors affect whether or not you will get an item? Is it based on MPR, your challenge bonus of that fight, your score/pr ratio, ... ? Or is it truly pure randomness?

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] June 5 2009 12:43 PM EDT

I imagine it is random, modified by refresh rate.

lel June 5 2009 3:04 PM EDT

what are the rares that are granted as rewards?

AdminShade June 5 2009 3:05 PM EDT

Ranger, I was just making a 'what if' comparison. If there would be 1 spawn a day, with half of it being through fights, then this would still yield low amounts... but possibly enough.

AdminJonathan June 5 2009 3:26 PM EDT

> NUB's actually get a small advantage

Not so. NUBs are losing 20% of their bonus cash, but only get the same chance of getting a rare as everyone else.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] June 5 2009 3:32 PM EDT

strictly speaking NUBs could get an extra benefit over vets who don't buy BA.

DoS [Battle Royale] June 5 2009 3:42 PM EDT

It is a bit of an advantage over the players, including myself, who are running an NCB and not buying all their BA. I can understand that we never had a chance at money we would never have attempted at anyway by not buying but now we are down quite a bit compared to cheaper BA purchasers. /iPhone message

Lefty June 5 2009 3:44 PM EDT

This could be a blow to NUBs, if you look at the numbers.

Before this change, I made about 1.2mil on 800 BA / Day at about 1.3mil MPR.

Rewards being cut by 1/5 means I'm losing 240k CBD every day. Almost 1.7mil every week is lost from the 1/5 reduction. SO, I have to find a rare item worth 1.7mil, or a couple equivalent to that amount in order to break even.

Just some food for though.

Sickone June 5 2009 4:04 PM EDT

Basically, what people here are saying is that the cash reduction is disproportionately high to the cash sinks being removed.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 5 2009 4:09 PM EDT

there might have been other factors involved in wanting less cash in the game. in other words, while this was listed as the reason for the cash rewards decrease, it might not have been the only reason.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] June 5 2009 4:13 PM EDT

I'm guessing Jon is more likely than anyone else to estimate the value of the spawns relative to the cash reduction accurately, given price fluctuations it is never going to be exact but I doubt he plucked the 1/5 reduction out of thin air.

Are spawns still generated by number of battles fought the previous day?

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 5 2009 4:13 PM EDT

better yet, the glass half full person might look at this and say "we have had cash reward reductions in the past and didn't get jack for it, at least we got something this time!"

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] June 5 2009 4:15 PM EDT

I think only the NUB has had a cash reward reduction in CB2

Cube June 5 2009 4:19 PM EDT

'strictly speaking NUBs could get an extra benefit over vets who don't buy BA.'

Which is far smaller than the vets get from spending more BA by being around longer..

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 5 2009 4:26 PM EDT

5% across the board cash rewards reduction is what i was referring to:

http://www.carnageblender.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002TSf

Mikel June 5 2009 5:13 PM EDT

Hmm so if I spend all of my BA, which I have ;) I should have an equal chance to get one, but someone already has 2 drops :(

So is there an average drop rate? or is it time based? IMHO from games that did "random" drops, these things always hit at a certain time, so if someone figures out those times, then they can maximize their randomness.

While this change is interesting and will give everyone a reason to spend all of their BA each day, is it worth it via the server load? Or did you upgrade the server yet? Cause I am having problems fighting constantly in the last 3 or so days, getting errors or fights taking much longer to load.

Demigod June 5 2009 5:20 PM EDT

Mikel, the drops could be as simple as .001% chance to spawn per fight rather than time-based.

And is anyone else getting mildly jealous of those winning items? I've gotten nada, and I'm about to start mugging people. I've found myself staring at the screen, hoping for some new text box to pop up.

QBRanger June 5 2009 5:32 PM EDT

>Not so. NUBs are losing 20% of their bonus cash, but only get the same chance of getting a rare as everyone else. <

Exactly as RD says.

NUBs get all their BA free. Vets still have to pay for theirs. NCBers frequently do not buy all of theirs everyday, so this is a boost to the NUB drop rate and the drop rate to those vets that do buy BA.

Therefore a small boost to NUBs.

Likely not perceptible but still a little boost.

I guess I am a more of a sure thing type person. Someone who invests in bonds with a certain return rather than the market with its uncertainly.

Wizard'sFirstRule June 5 2009 5:33 PM EDT

Ranger, you might be risk averse, but I wouldn't think you always go for the sure thing.
If someone offers you 1m CBD, or a gamble with 50-50 chance of winning 5b CBD (yes 5b) or nothing, I think you take the gamble.

QBRanger June 5 2009 5:38 PM EDT

Well certainly PK, that is a good gamble.

However 20% less rewards for a chance to get an item... I do not know if that is a good deal.

So far I have had 500+ battles with nothing extra. Average 600 CB2 per battle before the change. So 120 CB less. Times 500 is 60k less CB2 made. If I get a katana I am losing out. If I get nothing I am losing out. If I get a pair of SB I win.

Just averages I guess, hopefully in the long long run it evens out.

That is why I said Meh for my feelings on it. Nothing really changed. It will take many months before vets over new players have a bit more due to more battles=more drops. But that is still a while away.

For those that found 2 items so far, excellent. For those like me that found nothing, time to fight some more :)

PearsonTritonRaveshaw June 5 2009 5:50 PM EDT

If it stays like this (which I personally hope it doesn't, no matter how "interesting" it is), there should be some sort of boost for those people who just never seem to get anything and a cap on those who get lucky. Let's say two people fight the same amount of battles. In a week, one person might get five items and the other zero. Because it's completely random, this is possible. Make it so the more the person with zero doesn't get an item, his chances increase, and visa versa for the lucky one with five items.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] June 5 2009 5:52 PM EDT

'strictly speaking NUBs could get an extra benefit over vets who don't buy BA.'

Which is far smaller than the vets get from spending more BA by being around longer..

I agree, Cube, at a certain point depending on how much free BA you get you will be ahead of any new NUBs, it is not the case right now.

Marlfox [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 5 2009 5:55 PM EDT

Rave, that's called socialism. Jon isn't too big a fan.

PearsonTritonRaveshaw June 5 2009 5:59 PM EDT

And taxing everybody 20% of their income for some sort of lotto isn't socialism?

Marlfox [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 5 2009 6:00 PM EDT

Of course not, silly. That's hope and change.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 5 2009 6:00 PM EDT

HAHAHAH

DarkPrince June 5 2009 6:02 PM EDT

Ranger you are not the only one who hasn't found an item. I've fought over 1,000 battles since the change and I still haven't found a single item while others are finding their 2nd and 3rd items. It makes me a bit jealous but what can you do? The change has been done and we can only hope that one day a +1000 MH will drop for us to make up for all those drops we didn't get.

j'bob June 5 2009 6:03 PM EDT

^ Those two posts above nov are AWESOME!!!!
Marly will no doubt run for and attain a high office one day!
lmootyo

QBOddBird June 5 2009 6:06 PM EDT

Yeah, I've also fought/bought almost all of my BA since the change, but still no item. Them's the breaks, and I doubt anyone currently complaining would be if they had gotten a lucky streak.

On a side note, I was wrong. I said everyone would be back to whining and complaining by the weekend, but they already beat me to it xD

DarkPrince June 5 2009 6:09 PM EDT

Rave: I can see why you believe it's socialism. Jon is taxing the populace in order to give everyone an opportunity to gain a rare item from battles. But is it even an equal of distribution of the resources? Nobody knows. I would rather call it capitalism, because it's the exploitation of the many and the gain of the few.

QBRanger June 5 2009 6:10 PM EDT

And taxing everybody 20% of their income for some sort of lotto isn't socialism? --- Typical Republican thinking.

Of course not, silly. That's hope and change. ---- Typical Democrat thinking.

And I would not say people are bitching and moaning. Just adjusting to the change.

[SIBT]Gardiner Amarth June 5 2009 6:11 PM EDT

I'm not sure I understand why people can accept random drops in other RPG type games, but not this one.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 5 2009 6:16 PM EDT

would people have accepted it better if jon introduced the cash rewards as a separate non-related changelog entry, then waited a few days a thrown us a bone with random drops?

QBOddBird June 5 2009 6:16 PM EDT

"And I would not say people are bitching and moaning. Just adjusting to the change."

You say tom-ay-to, I say to-mah-to...

DarkPrince June 5 2009 6:17 PM EDT

It's because random drops were probably integrated at the launch of the game or because those games didn't penalize the players for the addition of the new feature. The problem in this community is that people are losing 20% of their cash per fight and many aren't being compensated for the loss (majority of people haven't received an item after doing hundreds of fights while a few have gotten their 2nd item already).

three4thsforsaken June 5 2009 6:19 PM EDT

I think most people are ok with the random drop concept.

Some people just don't like that random drops are being feed from half of the auction's spawned items and that our cash rewards were significantly reduced because of it.

Had it just been random drops spawning from nowhere I seriously doubt people would have a problem.

PearsonTritonRaveshaw June 5 2009 6:19 PM EDT

Yes ranger, I'm soooooooo a republican...

QBRanger June 5 2009 6:21 PM EDT

DP said it correctly.

I looked at my rewards drop as a "BAMM" moment.

What if it was 20% less xp with a chance to find a token giving you 500k xp? How would that go over?

If drops were as this way from the beginning, then nobody would have said a thing. However... now at this later stage, when people got used to the money they were getting, it is a radical change. 1/5 rewards just lost and some random chance to get a random rare.

It is disheartening when people are finding 2 or 3 and you still have not whiffed 1. And, knowing my luck, it will be a katana or better yet an ES I will find :)

Remember, all critique, both good and bad, is not moaning. As quite a few people seem to forget.

Cube June 5 2009 6:56 PM EDT

'If it stays like this (which I personally hope it doesn't, no matter how "interesting" it is), there should be some sort of boost for those people who just never seem to get anything and a cap on those who get lucky.'

Considering how long term this game is, that shouldn't really be an issue.

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] June 5 2009 10:08 PM EDT

"would people have accepted it better if jon introduced the cash rewards as a separate non-related changelog entry, then waited a few days a thrown us a bone with random drops?"

That's like what NS said with junction, what if had been introduced as only 50% junction, then was boosted to 90%. The only reason people are making a hubbub is because of the past. If you give a man a cookie, he's going to ask for two. I completely agree.

Shark June 5 2009 10:31 PM EDT

heh almost as good as finding them in the store in days of old :)woot!!

Wizard'sFirstRule June 6 2009 4:40 AM EDT

I think it is a case of "Artemis, you can have a cookie a day." and two days later "Artemis, I changed my mind, you can have 2 cookies each time, but every 2 days"

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] June 6 2009 4:26 PM EDT

I'm going to speak (write?) for myself here, but this change is making me CLICK, CLICK and also CLICK. I'm still not fighting all my BA every day, because it's impossible, but I am fighting way more than I would have been without this change. If the average player reacts like me, this could mean a lot for player retention, and keeping their interest. Some unlucky players will get the short end of the stick, and some may not even get any drops, but the big picture is pretty, and this change will do the game much good, in my opinion.

(I am very good at stating obvious stuff, no?)

PS: For the record, I did not get anything yet.

Admiralkiller June 6 2009 4:49 PM EDT

I know the change is recent but I would like to know a few things. (If allowed)
The Odds for items being spawned for each BA regeneration rate.
Exactly how it works stated in help or wiki.
Maybe a place one could look to see whom has received this "Gift from the Gods" perhaps in transfer logs.
The rules or laws to receiving an item. So to help answer some questions.
The Items one could possibly win.
More.

Please understand I am not demanding these things and I know time is short, but it would be nice to be able to have these questions answered. I do appreciate your hard work and changes made, however it does not seem complete with out an area in help to clarify questions. It Sucks filtering 200+ logs to find some answers in forums.

Thank you.

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] June 6 2009 5:25 PM EDT

With the cash drop can we also reduce the cost of hiring a minion? I was already prepared for a long slog to catch up to the hire cost but I'm not even hitting $400/fight most of the time now (which is at least a 33% drop for me even with similar challenge bonuses as before) and can see it being a few years rather than a few months to get my 2nd minion now.

QBRanger June 7 2009 10:46 PM EDT

Zog,

I suspect nothing will chanage. As the price structure is based upon your minions current xp and a 3:1 or 5:1 ratio.

Also, this change is not supposed to make you earn less overall money.

You get money and rares which if sold I guess should be equal to what you would normally make.

I would rather have the sure money as after 2300 BA I have yet to find 1 rare while others are working on finding their 3rd.

Wizard'sFirstRule June 7 2009 10:47 PM EDT

Also, this change is not supposed to make you earn less overall money.

You get money and rares which if sold I guess should be equal to what you would normally make.


but CB as a whole is getting less money assuming the same amount of fights.

Lefty June 7 2009 10:52 PM EDT

"I would rather have the sure money as after 2300 BA I have yet to find 1 rare while others are working on finding their 3rd. "

This is exactly how I feel.

Cube June 7 2009 10:59 PM EDT

Patience.. Considering the small amount of items in auctions 20% does seem like a lot, but if it causes prices to rise, it should balance out a bit more later.

Not to mention, this effects everyone equally in the long run.

miteke [Superheros] June 8 2009 7:27 AM EDT

What I hate about this change is that it, once again, nerfs my strat. I swear Jon follows me around and tries to think of ways to hurt whatever strat I'm using. Archers already found it impossible to keep their weapon up with their need. They are great for a restart where you already have a nice sized weapon or pile of cash waiting to support the habit, but after a while you just can't equip your archer with a decent weapon. Where once my character kicked butt, every week it gets worse because I just can not afford to upgrade my weapon enough to keep up. Now with this change the downward trend is accelerated and I can just about forget it.


In short, less money means a nerf for archers, and to a lesser extent, tanks.

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] June 8 2009 7:39 AM EDT

On the 'upside', in a roundabout way this is the buff forgers were hoping for.
Their $/BA ratio looks more efficient in comparison to fighting now.

QBRanger June 8 2009 10:38 AM EDT

"Patience.. Considering the small amount of items in auctions 20% does seem like a lot, but if it causes prices to rise, it should balance out a bit more later. "

This is the problem most people are not considering correctly.

With less overall money in the game, prices will drop as there is less in circulation to purchase things.

There are fixed costs in the game- BA, minions, upgraded to items. These will not change. Therefore there is less CB in circulation and therefore less purchasing power.

Prices will certainly fall for most items. A couple like a corn may still hold their value, but most items will plummet.

I do not know what items will, however tank items for sure will as people have less certain money to upgrade items. Meaning less tanks in play. Meaning less need for tank items. This part is my theory and may be wrong, however, I find nothing to contradict this.

QBsutekh137 June 8 2009 10:58 AM EDT

Well, not plummet -- probably just go down by about 20%. *smile*

Still, that is a really good point about liquidation. Really good. Trying to upgrade weapons and/or buy additional minions probably just got around 20% harder, unless all the drops you receive happen to be something you would have had to spend cash on anyway. That's not the case for most veterans, and probably isn't the case for most teams. A tank team snagging a pair of AGs would HAVE to sell (at the reduced price, due to less cash in the game). Teams can't be expected to reconfigure just to use dropped items. That would be very silly.

I am having a hard time seeing how Ranger's point can be glossed over, and since the rest of this thread seems to be reasoning: "The new scheme is even-steven at best, even-steven at worst," doesn't Ranger's point put the new scheme firmly into the "This looks a little worse" category? He got railed for daring to say "meh" above, now he appears to have a valid point that makes this worse than "meh". (miteke also pretty much made the same point, probably some others, too).

I am very open to someone refuting this -- I probably haven't properly digested all of it...

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 8 2009 11:05 AM EDT

Boiling it down, in essence, if the drop rate for spawned Rares hasn't been increased (no matter if the drop rate is normalised over regen rates), then we have the same amount of Rares coming into the game.

50% into the AH as usual, 50% going to the lucky few.

But for this, *everyone* has had thier rewards lowered by 20%.

No new items, everyone takes a reward hit, some lucky folk get to even out their reward hit by a free Rare. As long as it's not a Kat or GoM of course...

QBsutekh137 June 8 2009 11:47 AM EDT

...and fewer liquid assets to buy the drops that invariably will get auctioned because they are of no use to the dropee...

That's why prices will fall, so overall, cash rewards have gone down (even in the long term). And in the meantime, weapon upgrade costs, BA costs, and minion purchase costs have NOT been reduced.

Conclusions:

-- This actually IS slightly good for forgers. At least the NW they create has not been reduced.
-- This is, overall, a reduction in cash-for-fighting rewards (due to Ranger's point about auction prices dropping), while cash-based expenditure requirements remain the same.
-- This is not to say there isn't still a lot of liquid cash around, but that isn't the point. If liquid cash goes down, prices will drop. Not even USD can help with that, though this might make the USD value of CBD go up...

Is that a valid summary of points?

Soul Eater June 8 2009 11:52 AM EDT

I want my money rewards back I've spent 1000+BA and haven't won squat...

Cube June 8 2009 12:10 PM EDT

I think you're right. Messed up my thinking somewhere.

QBRanger June 8 2009 12:18 PM EDT

After considering this change and with all the other posts, I feel my "meh" may have been a bit too optimistic.

Sut summed up the points very well and certainly the CB to US ratio will go up. High enough that even AoD may start selling his money.

While I appreciate the change, and the idea behind it, now I feel this is quite bad for things.

Especially tanks who have to upgrade their items vs mages that do not.

And unless one spends a lot of USD, forget about hiring minions after a certain MPR.

NS, Please do not think I am railing on the game. Howwever, not all changes work out for the best. This, I think, is one of them. Something tried and after my consideration, is not that great.

As someone pointed out, those games that have drops have unlimited "BA" or time one can put into the game. CB has a finite BA and finite amount of money one can make in a day/week/year.

I would hope that 1 of 2 things occur:

1) Revert back to the old method of things, and consider this experiment a nice try.

2) Reduce the penalty for cash rewards to at least 10% from 20%.

I can tell you right now, even with the small chance to get a drop, it is getting quite disheartening to get nothing while others are getting 2 high level rares and working on their third. And if my drop manages to be a lesser tattoo, that will be the funniest thing of all.

Cube June 8 2009 12:31 PM EDT

I'm not sure how many fights are fought in one day, but this does seem disproportionate. There aren't that many items that spawn in auctions per day.

Thak June 8 2009 12:35 PM EDT

How about boosting the amount of BA a day to compensate :D

Lord Bob June 8 2009 12:45 PM EDT

"I want my money rewards back I've spent 1000+BA and haven't won squat..."

Same. I've given this change a fair chance. I've had not a single drop yet. This system rewards a lucky few and penalizes the rest. It creates an uneven playing field. CB's economy has now become a game of chance.

I admit I might be a bit less displeased had I received a nice drop before now. But I haven't so this change sucks.

Lord Bob June 8 2009 12:46 PM EDT

"How about boosting the amount of BA a day to compensate"

Fine, but only for those who didn't get drops.

JaggedFel311 June 8 2009 12:59 PM EDT

"How about boosting the amount of BA a day to compensate"

Fine, but only for those who didn't get drops."

If you do that, then do you readjust the amount of BA back down once a person gets a drop? If we're going to be "fair" to everyone, then that would have to be done.

QBRanger June 8 2009 2:46 PM EDT

To be fair to Jon and NS:

This is a small sample size, only 5 days of fighting.

Some will get more others none in the beginning.

Overall it SHOULD even out if everyone fights the same.

I feel very bad for NCB players who now have to deal with more issues. Instead of having the same chance as everyone else, typically they do not buy all their BA and therefore are the most effected by the new changes.

However, over 2500 BA now without a single drop leads me to dislike this change more and more. I just want my normal rewards back so I can plan my character accordingly.

three4thsforsaken June 8 2009 2:50 PM EDT

I'm kind of annoyed as well. I've been saving up CBD for the last 6 months in order to hire. This has just made the last amount of money to hire that much harder.

QBRanger June 8 2009 2:51 PM EDT

Unless of course you are lucky enough to win this forced lottery.

Lord Bob June 8 2009 2:59 PM EDT

"If you do that, then do you readjust the amount of BA back down once a person gets a drop? If we're going to be "fair" to everyone, then that would have to be done."

I was thinking that whoever got the drops wouldn't get the extra BA in the next 24 your period. Or 48, hours, if that works better. Then everything resets.

QBRanger June 8 2009 3:03 PM EDT

LB,

I respectfully disagree.

All things should even out of time and we should not punish those lucky enough to win the CB lottery.

In the future, you may be lucky enough to get 2 drops in a day. Just right now we are quite unlucky.

Lord Bob June 8 2009 3:11 PM EDT

Fair. It was just a response to Thak's suggestion, and I ran with it.

"In the future, you may be lucky enough to get 2 drops in a day."

Ha! You apparently don't know my luck.

QBRanger June 8 2009 3:16 PM EDT

I did not state 2 good drops.

One day you will likely get a katana and lesser tattoo. Something I would expect to see also :)

Lord Bob June 8 2009 3:37 PM EDT

"One day you will likely get a katana and lesser tattoo."

And that's probably all I will get, ever.

Cube June 8 2009 3:39 PM EDT

It may be sooner than you think. ;)

Lord Bob June 8 2009 4:03 PM EDT

Yep.

"A Lesser Ice Familiar lvl 35"

Whoopee do. 20% drop in rewards for this?

QBRanger June 8 2009 4:36 PM EDT

Level 35?

I thought all those spawned in auctions were level 20.

Lord Bob June 8 2009 4:39 PM EDT

I guess I'm just extra special. Or doubly lame. Or..

Whatever. This sucks.

QBRanger June 8 2009 4:44 PM EDT

Cube (In Bruges) 128.237.243.57 Ranger (Heroes) A Lesser Ice Familiar ($5921) -- RndmDrpCnsltionPrize 3:37 PM EDTf

I would think you got scammed also and did not win anything.

QBRanger June 8 2009 4:49 PM EDT

Cube (Froogle) 128.237.243.57 Lord Bob (Lord Bob) A Lesser Ice Familiar ($6195) -- RndmDrpCnsltionPrize 3:40 PM EDT

Yes, it seems your batting 0.000 as well in the CB lottery.

{WW]Nayab [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 8 2009 4:56 PM EDT

lol fail. Just trying to be annoying it seems.

Lord Bob June 8 2009 5:00 PM EDT

"I would think you got scammed also and did not win anything."

Damn. Now I just feel stupid.

I told you I had no luck at things like this.

But not scammed. Just pranked. *grin*

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] June 8 2009 5:41 PM EDT

+5 Cube, That was HILARIOUS.

Sickone June 8 2009 6:39 PM EDT

At least you guys GOT a crummy prize... I got none so far :P

TheCakeIsTheTruth June 8 2009 6:40 PM EDT

Nothing at all, I'll be surprised when I get something.

Mikel June 8 2009 6:42 PM EDT

that was evil! I actually thought about doing that too :P I have a ton of stilettos!

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] June 8 2009 7:02 PM EDT

Still nothing here either, not missed more than a handful of BA including bought BA >.<

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] June 8 2009 7:05 PM EDT

If you get a pair of DBs, EBs or an AoJ, or something along those lines you are covered for like 4 weeks. It's only been like one week... chill

three4thsforsaken June 8 2009 7:10 PM EDT

there isn't enough AoJ/EBs or DBs spawned to go around for everyone during 4 weeks.

QBRanger June 8 2009 7:19 PM EDT

In the past month there have been 8 DBs and 5 EBs spawned by the auctioneer.

So 1/2 is 4 and 3 for rounding sake.

7 items with everyone fighting.

Add in the 2 corns from the 4 spawns via auctions in the past month and we have about 10 high end items for everyone via drops per month.

That covers DB, EB, and corns.

Not great odds.

And yes, so far nothing for me. 2500+ fights and counting.

QBRanger June 8 2009 7:21 PM EDT

And also, let us not forget the fees associated with selling one of our drops.

It may be little, but it still eats into the profit we make selling.

Cube June 8 2009 7:29 PM EDT

Sorry, had to do it =)

QBRanger June 8 2009 7:32 PM EDT

It was quite amusing to see a base Lesser Ice familiar in my inventory.

Took me a few minutes to figure it out, thinking I must have missed the message about the gods giving me one.

I can say Cube punked me.

Little Anthony June 8 2009 11:10 PM EDT

see? you got a rare after all. :D Cheers!

Eliteofdelete [Battle Royale] June 9 2009 12:27 AM EDT

Nooo ranger! you must have gotten my ice familiar...because I clearly got your ES :D

Untouchable [The Knighthood] June 9 2009 12:42 AM EDT

Ranger, if you sold the Lesser Ice Familiar to the stores, i think i bought it.


I now have it on one of my characters as an historic item.

Kinda like how France has its own place for the Mona Lisa.


yeah

Untouchable [The Knighthood] June 9 2009 12:57 AM EDT

oh it was a prank item.
even more memoriable

Zenai June 9 2009 12:57 AM EDT

and Cube's Prank Lives on.....Viva La Prank!

Soul Eater June 9 2009 2:14 AM EDT

Seriously though I need my money rewards back. I will never be able to pay off the gear I am being loaned at this rate.

Goodfish June 9 2009 4:33 AM EDT

Awww... you have to make your own CBD legitimately! :P

I guess I'm not too upset by the change. It sucks, for sure- I haven't gotten anything yet- but at least it lets me laugh at people who whine more than myself. :P

QBRanger June 9 2009 11:41 AM EDT

Anyone get 3 items yet?

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 9 2009 11:50 AM EDT

two here, an aoj and a katana.

for purposes of determining normal distribution though the aoj's should probably be thrown out as they were anomalous in their distribution.

QBRanger June 9 2009 2:03 PM EDT

Yes, for normal distribution purposes.

However, for drop rates, no.

Little Anthony June 9 2009 3:41 PM EDT

i got about 2mil for my drops (2). Boo Yaah for new change.

QBRanger June 9 2009 4:40 PM EDT

Yes LA,

You won the CB lottery.

Just forget about all those who are supplementing your income with their CB2. Just forget about all those people who have yet to find even 1 item.

Horray for LA!!!

BadFish June 9 2009 4:51 PM EDT

"Just forget about all those people who have yet to find even 1 item."
Done. And I haven't found anything yet.

Little Anthony June 9 2009 6:22 PM EDT

the concept of chance is NOT new! As the matter of fact, other role playing games get bored so fast as soon as 'everyone has everything'.

QBRanger June 9 2009 6:23 PM EDT

Spoken as one truly blessed by the Gods-multiple times.

As one not blessed, this sucks.

Tyriel [123456789] June 9 2009 6:36 PM EDT

"the concept of chance is NOT new! As the matter of fact, other role playing games get bored so fast as soon as 'everyone has everything'."

I wasn't aware that CB is an RPG.

I was always under the impression that it is a strategy game. You know, one that's based around strategy.

To use your own words to prove that, CB has never been about "the concept of chance". The game is not over, nor boring, when "everyone has everything". In fact, it is the most interesting, trying to find ways to use all of your resources to beat another person's resources without leaving yourself vulnerable.

There's barely any randomness in the game as it is, and a step towards randomness is a step away from what CB was and (I feel) should be. Rewards should be based on one's ability to make an effective strategy, plan effectively, distribute resources wisely, etc., not whoever gets lucky.

Tygonomy June 9 2009 7:07 PM EDT

Serieus you telling that story?
CB is who put's the most money into it. I don't mind that it is, but your story of equal chances is so far from the thruth and you don't even realise it.
Randomness is oke because in the long run chance is equal for all. So it gets less random over time. It's just the thrill of getting something.
PS. read first 50 post and last 50 post. Same people who said WHOOO are now calling BOOOOH.

QBRanger June 9 2009 7:45 PM EDT

Tyriel's story works for me.

Vaynard [Fees Dirt Cheap] June 9 2009 8:12 PM EDT

Any chance this rare lottery could be an opt in program? Something akin to where we have the choice for either more cash or a chance at rares?

Of course, this might just be the jealous side of me speaking since I've had no luck as of yet. But at the moment I really believe I would prefer the extra money.

Untouchable [The Knighthood] June 9 2009 8:47 PM EDT

20% cash drop is a no-no for tanks

Rawr June 9 2009 8:50 PM EDT

I 100% agree with Tyriel. I could not put it any better. About the USD thing, well, I too am against spending USD in this game, but that is somewhat of a different issue I suppose...

QBRanger June 9 2009 10:01 PM EDT

Taking a cue from Tyriel,

For the same people who dislike the random factor of magic damage to be enamored by this new CB lottery is mind boggling.

Little Anthony June 9 2009 10:06 PM EDT

the randomness cannot be high simply 'cause the auction spawn rare isn't that great anyway in the first place.





Post 300th Woot woot woot!

QBRanger June 9 2009 10:10 PM EDT

When someone gets 2 and others zero, there is a randomness factor.

Godpanda June 9 2009 11:02 PM EDT

Yeah. Randomness stemmed from lack of sample size.

Give it a month, then you may have something.

Burton June 9 2009 11:04 PM EDT

*may have something*
So we should fork out millions of our own money to have a chance to get 1 item? Seems rather dumb to me.

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] June 9 2009 11:08 PM EDT

"Give it a month, then you may have something."

Do I hear an echo?

"So we should fork out millions of our own money to have a chance to get 1 item? Seems rather dumb to me."

Some items you get will sell for millions of dollars.

QBRanger June 9 2009 11:09 PM EDT

Alright GW,

Almost 1 week has already passed. That to me is a large size given I have fought over 3,000 fights with nothing and others less and received 2 items.

When will you feel free to see the other side?

When someone has 5 and others 0. 10 vs 2? When will you be convinced it is not fair to all? Especially those NCBers who have not bought BA everyday. Or is this yet another NCB tax? For trying to restart since they may have misplayed their NUB.

I would hope that we encourage NCBs, as a way to keep the ranks fresh. To give the game new challengers. NUBs can do that, but it is the NCBers that do it more often.

I know of someone wanting to hire a 2nd minion. All of a sudden his well laid plans have been delayed possibly 2-3 months. Unless he hits the lottery.

Can we please have our old system back? Please?

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] June 9 2009 11:11 PM EDT

"Almost 1 week has already passed. That to me is a large size given I have fought over 3,000 fights with nothing and others less and received 2 items."

I doubt that LA missed BA, and I can say that I didn't, so to be fair that's not a true statement.

QBRanger June 9 2009 11:19 PM EDT

There are others that have gotten 2 and missed some BA.

Daz June 9 2009 11:28 PM EDT

I've missed very little and have nothing.

I also recently started an NCB character. A Tank, to add owie to owie. I was fine splitting my cash between BA and Bow upgrades before, now its harder.
Largely because I'm spending all my cash on BA now, trying to get a drop so I can sell it to upgrade my bow. XD

We'll see how it ends up. If the worst comes to the worst, I'll just start a new NCB after this one using cash I've made this time. Which... uh.. probably wont be much.

Demigod June 9 2009 11:40 PM EDT

Is it fair to assume that the 20% reduction and spawning of items are two separate events? It's possible that Jon/NS just felt there was too much money in the game and wanted to slow it down some, which means that even if the spawning stops, the 20% wouldn't be returned.

And for the record, I've missed very little BA since this started... maybe 50ish, and I have yet to receive anything. In the long run, it will statistically even out, but it's become darkly comical that I'm staring at the top of the screen for new text to appear while burning BA.

QBRanger June 9 2009 11:47 PM EDT

Nope, they are intimately related per the changelog first post:

"Half of all rares will now be granted as rewards in battle, in addition to cash and XP.

(That is why cash rewards have been decreased a little.)"

Jon later in that thread stated "a little" was 20%.

QBRanger June 10 2009 8:22 AM EDT

Can we get a CM about getting an item?

Talion June 10 2009 3:43 PM EDT

"20% cash drop is a no-no for tanks " -- Amen!

KingElfstone June 11 2009 6:36 AM EDT

The cash drop and the lag that has been around for awhile has made CB allot less fun. I'd love for things to go back to the way they were.

QBJohnnywas June 11 2009 6:53 AM EDT

Firstly people are well within their rights to say 'meh' to this change. I may not agree with some people most of the time, but everybody is perfectly entitled to their opinion I think. And I can see why people aren't liking it.

But after a week or so (and yes I have gotten an item) but I'm liking this change. Even if I don't get another item from a fight, I've been watching the fight results like a hawk. It does remind me of camping somewhat - how many BA (and rewards) did people used to waste hanging out in the store? It's an element of fun, which to be frank has been missing from the game for me for some time.
This thread is closed to new posts. However, you are welcome to reference it from a new thread; link this with the html <a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002mfI">The gods must be crazy</a>