Items found via random drop Part 3 (in General)


Rawr August 5 2009 3:18 AM EDT

hehe Part 2 JUST expired.

"Mandos is pleased with your victory and grants you a A Rune of Balrog Flame lvl 20. Use it well!"

So far:
ToA
HoE
Exec
EB
SF
RoBF

[YG]Wildthing August 5 2009 3:20 AM EDT

first drop was an adam, just yesterday

MonkeyMandate [Wasting Time] August 5 2009 3:30 AM EDT

i've had a BoF, 2x HoD, 2x EF and a LFF since the start of my NCB

Tyriel [123456789] August 5 2009 4:13 AM EDT

"Ulmo is pleased with your victory and grants you a A Katana [74x9] (+1). Use it well!"

That makes GoM +5, base ES, and a x9 +1 Kat.

I'm so rich now! This is such more awesomer than good auction plus RPG fun good many funs!

I'll go back to playing Diablo II now, where drops are actually a good, fun thing.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] August 5 2009 5:30 AM EDT

I'm down 6.9mil but up one katana.

Timberwolf August 5 2009 5:43 AM EDT

Only drop I have received has been a Lesser Steel Familiar.
It's a rare one too, not one of the crappy store bought ones you get now. :)

Zenai August 5 2009 6:47 AM EDT

Still on these two LRoBF, LRoS (Both were Base of course)

Made 10K off the LRoBF
Sold the LRoS to the Store

Burton August 5 2009 6:51 AM EDT

Hal - 1M
2x ToA's - 650K and 350K
AoJ - Keeping, but lets say 2.8M
LRoBF - 150k

Total - ~5M

QBRanger August 5 2009 9:00 AM EDT

I've given up on this stupid system.

I have gotten 6 drops, about 3M NW of items.

So I guess I am about even or down a bit.

Really don't care no more.

Adios Muchachos August 5 2009 9:52 AM EDT

Ranger, please do us all a favor. Quit whining about the drop system, there are still some out there that haven't gotten a single drop. You've had how many 5 or 6? Just can it please?

Archer August 5 2009 9:58 AM EDT

I've managed to get 5 items so far, but nothing too special.

An Elven Stiletto
An Executioner's Sword
An Amulet of Might
A Set of Chain Mail Leggings
A Rune of Solitude

Lefty August 5 2009 10:07 AM EDT

"Ranger, please do us all a favor. Quit whining about the drop system, there are still some out there that haven't gotten a single drop. You've had how many 5 or 6? Just can it please?"

------------------------------------------------------------------

You're failing to realize that he is "whining" for the others who haven't quite voiced as much as he has. He has came about even, so he says. That would make him neutral in the situation, in theory. But instead, he insists that something needs to be done.

Why? Look at all the other people who are at a loss? MANY more users than those who aren't.

QBRanger August 5 2009 10:26 AM EDT

Like Lefty stated.

I have been against this lottery system from day 1. Even before I received my first drop.

Right now, I am about even and still hate this system.

So please Tal, understand my posts before you go after me. I am on your side.

Adios Muchachos August 5 2009 10:40 AM EDT

Honestly, I couldn't care less if the system stays or goes. I'm just tired of all the griping, its a change. Were you not wanting a "big, dramatic" change? Well you got one, perhaps you should think before you leap? I don't see it as ever changing, nor going away. I do however believe that the 20% decrease in money from fighting is drastically hurting the system, and it needs to be changed to about 10-12% instead. However, ask yourself one thing, is it still exciting when you get that drop? I believe that the drop system will bring more players, if only because it institutes a kind of "gambling". Should I buy BA or should I save my money?

Sorry for singling you out Ranger, but I don't see the drop system ever disappearing or being made better. Take it and run.

QBRanger August 5 2009 10:45 AM EDT

I was hoping for a big change, yes.

But one that actually effected gameplay. Not something that is random and arbitrary.

Do I find a thrill of excitement when I get a drop? A bit, which turns to utter anger when it is a lesser tattoo (since removed from the system) or a katana. I actually overall feel worse when I get a garbage drop.

Will this make new players stay? Likely not. They will stay if they like the gameplay, the community and the game itself.

This drop system will likely have nothing to do with gameplay.

But you have to actually fight to get a drop. Forging does not do it Tal.

Demigod August 5 2009 11:12 AM EDT

"I don't see the drop system ever disappearing or being made better."
-Tal

I was under the impression that NS was removing lesser tattoos and possibly other worthless items from the drop list. While it's not fix and doesn't change the 20% reduction, it is certainly an improvement in my eyes. Receiving a lesser tat from the gods was more insulting than beneficial.

cube.the August 5 2009 12:26 PM EDT

"Honestly, I couldn't care less if the system stays or goes. I'm just tired of all the griping, its a change. Were you not wanting a "big, dramatic" change?" -Tal

"I was hoping for a big change, yes.

But one that actually effected gameplay. Not something that is random and arbitrary." -Ranger


Just to be clear, I haven't received a drop yet either. To be a mediator, if there were some other "big change" wouldn't there still be griping? Ranger, if there was a major gameplay change, wouldn't someone else complain? What if it negatively affected you?

I feel that even if there was a different change someone won't like it and the griping would go on until the system is in place for x amount of time. At some point every change will balance out and find its place. I think we should try to give the system a bit more time before condemning it.

QBRanger August 5 2009 12:28 PM EDT

Actually Cube,

There have been changes that negatively effected me. And the good ones I have embraced.

The crappy ones I have campaigned to get rid of.

And yes, people will complain just about anything.

However, this change is nothing more than a random event lottery. Something great for a RPG. Not so great for a strategy game.

QBsutekh137 August 5 2009 12:58 PM EDT


As far as giving the change more time, etc., I have a thought exercise I have used to analyze the issue. As I often do, it involves taking things to a limit and then pulling back.

OK. Let's say we ARE fine with a random lottery system. I can understand why people like it, so I will offer that up as common ground.

Then the issue becomes: how much randomness? Right now, if things are as balanced as they should be, the randomness is 20%.

How high could that go before it became a problem? I mean, if you like randomness, the more the better, right? It should be maximized to optimal random sweetness. I'm also going to assume that 20% isn't just automatically perfect. How could it be? It was an arbitrary ratio Jonathan decided to go with. So we're not going to just give the default the benefit of the doubt, either.

Onward. Let's go really absurd, and say EVERYTHING was a lottery. 100%. Well, that obviously wouldn't work, going forward. There would be no liquid money in the game, so no economy.

Newton and Raphson being who they are, let's bisect that absurd figure, and go to 50%. Well, I don't think 50% would leave enough cash in the game, either, and with that many more rares dropping, the whole rush of "Ooooh, shiny!" would dull all the faster (since it already has for many people, even at the 20% rate).

Next, we know how it works at 20%. It would appear some people still haven't gotten anything, while other people have a lot. The ratio is large enough to "look bad", where lucky folks seem lucky for weeks, and unlucky folks seem unlucky for weeks. Insult to injury, losing a fifth of one's consistent cash rewards is definitely noticeable, especially for the folks who were good money managers in the first place. (hence these continuing threads...)

What if we went to 10%? Still a lottery, right? Still, "ooooh, shiny", and more cash in the game for consistent management since we would be back to 90%.

My question to the lottery supporters, then, is this: What should the percentage be, and what reasoning are you using to determine that percentage? REMEMBER: 20% was just arbitrary. So, the answer "20%, because that is how it started." is a completely asinine response. I am not saying you can't support 20%, but you should have a reason other than the default argument.

I think it should be tweaked to 10%, especially if worthless rares are removed from the system. Then, the shiny will really be shiny, the lottery rush will still exist, and we are back to more cash for consistent management. I'd like to go ahead and deflate a potential argument against 10%: "But then we will only get half the drops! Not shiny enough!" That's a pretty silly notion considering some folks are still at zero drops. Half of zero is still zero.

Anyone else care to contribute their thoughts?

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] August 5 2009 1:08 PM EDT

Did Jon state somewhere that he picked the 20% out of a hat?

AdminNightStrike August 5 2009 1:13 PM EDT

I think there is a general misconception on what the 20% is. Half of all rares generated go into auctions. The other half go into randomly awarded fights. The rare drop rate has not changed, it just goes into different locations. Money rewards were reduced 20%, as that is the value of half of all generated rares. 20% wasn't arbitrary at all.

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] August 5 2009 1:15 PM EDT

"20% wasn't arbitrary at all."

Thanks for clearing that up NS.

QBRanger August 5 2009 1:15 PM EDT

No idea Art.

Perhaps he looked at the value of all the rares over a timeframe, let's say 1 month and looked at all the money entering the game via fighting during that time.

And took 1/2 the value of the rares and found that was 20% of the money generated.

At least that would be the way to properly do it. Knowing Jon, he used a method similar.

But I have stated, just like Sut and others that 20% is too high for real gameplay. 10% would be better. But 0% without drops ideal.

Dark Dreky August 5 2009 1:17 PM EDT

Still no drops.

AdminNightStrike August 5 2009 1:20 PM EDT

That's probably close to what he did. He's rather good with numbers :)

A bigger issue is that worthless rares don't skew that value too much on the aggregate. However, when you are the one getting a GOM, it makes things hard.

Lesser tattoos are gone; that will help. The GOM will either disappear or get an overhaul soon. There's plenty more changes of that nature in the works.

Lefty August 5 2009 1:23 PM EDT

"There's plenty more changes of that nature in the works. "

Something to look forward to..

QBRanger August 5 2009 1:33 PM EDT

Just remember,

With the lesser tattoos and perhaps other "useless" rares out of the system, the drop rate will likely go way down.

Given the fact that quite a lot of drops were lesser tattoos and those other useless rares, there will be less rares overall dropping.

Drops will therefore be much less frequent, but better quality.

cube.the August 5 2009 1:49 PM EDT

Ranger,

IMO a random lotto system is fun every once in awhile and it has its places. In this game, which I would classify as a Strat-RPG, it seems much more useful for newer players than for older ones. There's just a certain amount of excitement in getting a random drop. I do agree with you that it loses a bit of its flavor in CB.

But what about those new players that get a drop that actually benefits them either monetarily or otherwise?

AdminNightStrike August 5 2009 1:53 PM EDT

I'm not sure what will happen to the drop rate. I don't know how dynamic it is, whether it is self adjusting or what. I know that every item in the game has a "rarity" attached to it, and there is a rarity level threshold to be considered rare enough for a drop. Beyond that, it has the potential to get complicated.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] August 5 2009 2:06 PM EDT

Ulmo is pleased with your victory and grants you a An Electric Familiar lvl 20. Use it well!

Brakke Bres [Ow man] August 5 2009 2:34 PM EDT

I think the drop system favors certain kind of folks.

QBRanger August 5 2009 2:35 PM EDT

Yes,

Those who fight :)

Tyriel [123456789] August 6 2009 1:00 AM EDT

"Ulmo is pleased with your victory and grants you a A Set of Chain Mail Leggings [18] (+6). Use it well!"

Hurray. My first non-junk drop, and it's still on the junky side. On a better note, this was the first time I actually saw the blue at the top of the fight page. I think seeing it *may* have caused an extra heartbeat. Either that, or I saw a mosquito fly in front of me, one or the other.

"But what about those new players that get a drop that actually benefits them either monetarily or otherwise?"

How many new players that fight the amount needed to get a drop would leave without the drop, and would stay with it?

I'll even tell you the answer: Very, very few.

I seriously doubt a drop or two every once in a while is going to keep a person who would otherwise not play playing. The fact that many veterans, myself included, are put off to the point of contemplating or actually leaving makes the system look at best pointless and at worst idiotic and counterproductive.

Shark August 6 2009 3:28 AM EDT

Battles Total 29,820 and nothing......nada, zilch, cero..

I really think they left me out completely :*(

hello am I here?

Chargerz-Back August 6 2009 4:25 AM EDT

17,008 battles and all i got was a lesser tat, i feel your pain a little bit shark.

Shark August 6 2009 4:57 AM EDT

yes the system favors those who fight...duh

IMO the system favors those who not only fight, but spend their CB dollars on buying all their BA everyday..

as for me at 3000 bucks a Battle, I'm not spending 700k a day for a better chance to get a katana

but it makes me feel kind of odd and left out when I see some touting they have 7 drops and/or made 10m CB...

kiss my FINS

QBRanger August 6 2009 9:00 AM EDT

Of course this is yet another slam against NCB characters.

Something that was well discussed over a month ago.

And yet another reason I hate this lottery system.

QBsutekh137 August 6 2009 9:37 AM EDT

I'm still waiting for someone who likes the system to explain what percentage the lottery should run with. The 20% figure still isn't "automatic". Jonathan could just as well have released a different percentage of rares into the mix and reduced cash rewards to a different extent. When I stated the 20% ratio was arbitrary, that doesn't mean it wasn't calculated (I figured Jonathan ran some numbers). The words "planned" and "arbitrary" aren't entirely mutually exclusive. One can plan all sorts of things and still have the whole concept be arbitrary.

So, I'll ask again, why 20%? Better yet, for someone who enjoys the lottery, why not 20%? 40%? If you like it, support it! Push for more!

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 6 2009 9:46 AM EDT

100% Baby!

No rewards, just drops! All items included, so to gain any cash, you sell 'common' items back to the store!

Then auction off the good rares for your item boosting/BA purchasing income.

Steady income per fight is boring!

Demigod August 6 2009 10:15 AM EDT

Sut, you keep mentioning 20%, but the only thing that's 20% is the CBD reward decrease (that's tied to the value of drops). The percentage of rares in drops is 50%. So shouldn't the question be "why 50%?"

I figure that's the part that was picked arbitrarily, but 50% seems okay to me. I'd rather see the 20% rewards-reduction decrease to lower than the value of the items (say, 10%), but that would go against what Jon was wanting to achieve.

QBRanger August 6 2009 10:36 AM EDT

I somewhat agree with GL,

Make all rares go to players, more frequent drops and lower money rewards 40%.

Let us really make this a lottery type game instead of a pseudo one!!!

To hell with planning, just get lucky.

Bring back FOD baby!!

QBsutekh137 August 6 2009 10:47 AM EDT

Demigod, yes, whatever the ratio -- whether it corresponds to the amount of rares, or the corresponding drop in cash rewards -- I'm still asking.

If one likes 50% drops, why? Why not 60%? 75%? 25% Again, I want the people who like the system to tell me why they don't want MORE drops if it is good for the community, player retention, "fun factor"... Sounds like a no-brainer to me. If those things are working, and enrich gameplay that much, let's all get behind it! If we have some fun, why not push for MORE fun?

Why do you think 50% seems reasonable, other than the fact that it is where we started? 50% of rares as drops was a completely random decision. Randomness driving more randomness, in a strategy game.

I'd like to see the rare drops go up to 75%, meaning cash rewards (going by current ratios) would go to, what, 30% decrease? Why not? More fun drops, more shiny rares!

QBsutekh137 August 6 2009 10:49 AM EDT

And as for "what Jon was wanting to achieve", we have absolutely no idea what that might be. Absolutely no clue. No use even talking about it. That's why I am going solely with "fun" momentum. The proof's in the pudding, so if drops are fun, we should have more. Sounds logical to me.

Demigod August 6 2009 11:07 AM EDT

"If one likes 50% drops, why? Why not 60%? 75%? 25% ... Why do you think 50% seems reasonable"

50% is just a safe starting point. I would absolutely abhor closing in on 100% drops. As far as I'm concerned, the drop system should just add a touch of spice to the game, not jack-knife it. I still like the idea of getting a nice item as a surprise on a random Tuesday evening. I don't support the idea of having my tank suffer for it. In theory, I would rather see it decreased to half (25%) in order to get my rewards back up... but then, some of us may never get that rainy day gift.

"And as for 'what Jon was wanting to achieve', we have absolutely no idea what that might be. Absolutely no clue."

It's true that I'm just speculating, but we do have a clue. The fact that Jon tied the rewards-decrease directly to the drop rate is a pretty good clue that he didn't want to buck the economy. While we have no idea how he feels about it now that a month has passed, I think it's fair to assume any other changes to the drop rate will likely still be tied to the cash rewards.

QBsutekh137 August 6 2009 11:24 AM EDT

Demigod, indeed. Yes, I know the mechanics behind the drop system, and how it is constructed. But that says NOTHING about why it was implemented in the first place. To illustrate, I understand how the "Clunkers for Cash" program works on cars, right down to how they disable the cashed-in clunkers. However, that does not mean I fully understand or agree with the policy or why it was implemented.

When speaking of the drop system, I was referring to the latter, "meta" meaning -- for that, we have no clue as to why it was implemented, other than pure speculation about things like player retention, etc.

Overall, it sounds like we are in perfect agreement. I, too, would like to see the drop system changed to 25% rares and a 10% decrease in cash. I can't recall the last time Jonathan implemented a game-wide change and didn't have to tweak the parameters or "fix it better". That's why I have asked my question, because if even staunch supporters of the drop system would like to see the rate reduced (and cash increased), then we have consensus. I'm not saying that is going to change Jonathan's mind about anything, but it's a start.

QBRanger August 6 2009 11:40 AM EDT

I suspect, and only suspect, to give people a feel of what camping was like.

Finding that rare in the store and getting it. The quick thrill of the find.

However, camping is so last year, and this new lottery forces everyone to participate in this system.

Which for numerous reasons really stinks.

But I cannot see how this enhances the game experience for anyone except for a few seconds when one actually gets a rare worth something. Which is quite rare indeed.

However, until Jon or NS actually give their views on the new system, we can all type till our fingers bleed and fall off.

Anyone have that great GIF file?

TheCakeIsTheTruth August 6 2009 8:12 PM EDT

Mandos is pleased with your victory and grants you a A Rune of Balrog Flame lvl 20. Use it well!

Yeppi.

Shark August 7 2009 12:59 AM EDT

Battles Total 30,633...nothing
I never camped 30k BA and came up dry :)

Godpanda August 7 2009 7:08 AM EDT

Tulkas is pleased with your victory and grants you a A Set of Tulkas' Gauntlets [6] (+5). Use it well!

My first drop. I found it funny he gave me his gauntlets. Must have really liked me.

Get this. It's my first drop. All this time without a drop. And you know what I haven't been doing? Complaining constantly.

Shock and/or awe.

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] August 8 2009 8:10 PM EDT

finally a 2nd drop and it's still EPIC fail!!!!!!

Varda is pleased with your victory and grants you a An Ice Familiar lvl 20. Use it well!

Brakke Bres [Ow man] August 11 2009 10:01 AM EDT

anyone still getting drops? As always I got 0 drops

Demigod August 11 2009 10:05 AM EDT

I haven't gotten one in ages.

cube.the August 11 2009 10:17 AM EDT

I'm just about to hit 10k battles with none so far.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] August 11 2009 10:24 AM EDT

"I'm just about to hit 10k battles with none so far."

i believe that only wins count. ; )

Admiralkiller August 11 2009 10:27 AM EDT

It's been awhile for me as well. At my rate i should be getting one soon.

cube.the August 11 2009 10:27 AM EDT

^ Haha, true that

Colonel Custard August 11 2009 10:31 AM EDT

Got a base MageSeeker.

That's in addition to a SF a while back.

Demigod August 11 2009 10:39 AM EDT

I just ran the numbers. I've had roughly 16k fights since my last drop, and I'm still waiting. My first drop came at almost exactly 18k fights, and the next two came faster, but I haven't run the numbers to find out how many battles occurred in between.

I would love to find out what the rare drop rate is.

Demigod August 11 2009 10:57 AM EDT

Okay, I roughed up some more numbers.

It took me 18k fights to get the 1st drop.
It took me about 10.5k fights to get the 2nd drop.
It took me about 3.4k fights to get the 3rd drop.

It's been almost 16k fights and I'm waiting on my next.

You can thank the NUB for all my free buy-in BA. :) It's also worth noting that I went from 8/BA regen to 7/BA regen during this time, and it's especially important to remember that NS removed some crapware that was dropping in fights. Removing the crapware lowers the overall drop rate (and may have ever-so-slightly increased our rewards).

And just to clarify, I'm not complaining. I prefer the reduced rate to avoid worthless drops. I just want to figure out the drop rate.

AdminNightStrike August 11 2009 12:24 PM EDT

Why does changing the rarity of lesser tattoos affect the drop rate, demi?

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] August 11 2009 12:25 PM EDT

demi, when you say fights do you mean wins? it is based on wins as i stated above and any attempt to figure out a rate needs to be based on wins as well, not just fights.

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] August 11 2009 12:42 PM EDT

Varda is pleased with your victory and grants you a An Electric Familiar lvl 20. Use it well!

Getting annoyed with tats of any kind, worth sod all now anyway so almost as little point as ES or GoM

Demigod August 11 2009 12:45 PM EDT

NS, I assume that when you removed lesser tattoos from spawning as drops, it means fewer items to drop. Using made up numbers, if half the rares (that spawn as drops) equals 100 drops per month, and 20 of those were lesser tattoos, then now we will have only 80 items dropping in fights per month.

dudemus, I'm basing it off of the total battles that I initiate. However, my numbers are rounded by 150-or-so fights, and my win percentage is usually around 99.4% of those battles. So even though it does include a few losses, it's within a standard deviation.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] August 11 2009 12:51 PM EDT

I think the drop rate will stay the same, demi but there will be less crap drops :)

iirc the way it used to work (when stuff spawned in the store) 240 times a day there was a chance of stuff spawning in the store and the % chance depended on the number of battles the previous day.

Demigod August 11 2009 1:03 PM EDT

Ah, that would be better for us. Can we get a confirmation, NS?

QBRanger August 11 2009 1:11 PM EDT

Dude,

Most people fighting have win % over 98%. I can safely say that number of fights is almost equal to wins.

And most people do realize that is it just wins.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] August 11 2009 1:12 PM EDT

i would still rather refer to battles won and use that stat instead of total battles. i have already corrected several people who actually thought that battles challenged was the correct stat to use when determining drops.

QBRanger August 11 2009 1:13 PM EDT

Well for people keeping long term track, there is no real way of finding the exact amount of battles won. As defensive wins are counted in the stats on the character overview.

I find it easier to see battles challenged and perhaps take 1% of that number. If that really means that much to get the nomenclature 100% correct.

QBRanger August 11 2009 1:14 PM EDT

I have not gotten anything in over 20 days.

No big deal but I am getting envious of all those lucky to win this forced lottery.

QBJohnnywas August 11 2009 1:16 PM EDT

Lol, I've had two drops and nothing since June. But I still like it. :)

AdminNightStrike August 11 2009 1:19 PM EDT

Demi - stating assumptions as definite fact is generally a bad idea.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] August 11 2009 1:23 PM EDT

"And most people do realize that is it just wins."

i guess the new people or returning vets that i pm'd who said they didn't realize that were just anomalies then. ; )

QBRanger August 11 2009 1:31 PM EDT

Very possible, or they just cannot read as it is clearly stated this way in the changelog.

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] August 11 2009 2:58 PM EDT

That's kindof like me JW. I got a drop day one, and day two, nothing since. But, I'm fine with the change.

QBRanger August 11 2009 3:19 PM EDT

Are you fine with the idea of a lottery or you fine with the 20% loss of rewards for an item now or then?

Would you be fine with 100% of rares dropping and a 40% cut in cash rewards from before the change?

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] August 11 2009 3:41 PM EDT

Just come across a post by Brandon back in march 05 suggesting random drops :) Not that there are any particularly illuminating responses just thought I'd share that :P

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] August 11 2009 5:14 PM EDT

Ranger, I'd be ok with 40% cut in cash for 100% drops I guess. I would really be ok with any change that Jon sees fit that doesn't affect strategy. It is his game, so I'm kindof passive unless it affects a certain type of strategy.

Shark August 12 2009 6:04 AM EDT

Challenged 28,676 battles and not even an item now and then, in fact ZERO of them, still...They Dont like me

lostling August 12 2009 6:59 AM EDT

-nil-

>.<

Tyriel [123456789] August 12 2009 7:00 AM EDT

"I would really be ok with any change that Jon sees fit that doesn't affect strategy."

To illustrate how reducing income can negatively affect a strategy game, I'll use Starcraft, Protoss vs. Zerg.

Now, the Zerg need 175 minerals less than the Protoss to allow production of and produce 1 war unit. If you were to drastically reduce income, the expensive Protoss would have to wait for a very, very long time to produce their units. The waiting for income to produce units would actually be longer than the time needed to produce the units. On the other hand, the Zerg and their lower costs will already have war units produced and on their way to the enemy base (if the player is any kind of competent), and the game would virtually be over.

Get the drift? Zerg, the ones with the lowest costs, benefit most from a reduction in income. The ones with the highest costs, the Protoss, are basically hopeless against them.

To translate that into CB, the Protoss (NCBs) suffer the most from a reduction in income because they have the highest costs. The waiting for income to produce units (Buy BA, hire minions, etc.) is actually longer than the time needed to produce the units. On the other hand, the Zerg (NUBs) will already have war units produced and on their way to the enemy base (if the player is any kind of competent).

In other words, yes, reducing the income across the board will affect some people a lot more than others. Instead of waiting forever for a person wanting to run a full BA, minion-hiring NCB, they now have to wait two forevers.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] August 12 2009 7:23 AM EDT

and the non N*B are terrans :)

Eliteofdelete [Battle Royale] August 12 2009 9:16 PM EDT

Yay! Just got my 2nd ES :D

Soul Eater August 12 2009 9:29 PM EDT

Well I still have not gotten a single drop I really really despise this drop system that rewards everyone but me.

Shark August 12 2009 10:12 PM EDT

makes you kind of wonder dont it? :*(

BHT August 13 2009 12:36 AM EDT

From: system (12:25 AM EDT)
Tulkas is pleased with your victory and grants you a A Cloak of the Istari [6] (+6). Use it well!

BHT August 13 2009 12:39 AM EDT

Drops to date:
Halidon Familiar
Gloves of Mercy +7
Pair of Altar's Gloves
Lesser Rune of Balrog Flame
A Morgul-Hammer [84x6] (+2)
Lesser Rune of Solitude
Cloak of the Istari +6


Est Value = 3Mil

AdminShade August 13 2009 8:09 AM EDT

Tulkas is pleased with your victory and grants you a An Amulet of Might [0] (+8). Use it well!

Got this after winning a battle against Dinh's character :)

QBRanger August 13 2009 10:34 AM EDT

Good to see the drop was something you could really use.

O wait, your auctioning it as it has little value to you other than to try and recoup the money your losing due to having to play this forced lottery.

Levon [Clocked Out] August 13 2009 12:25 PM EDT

well, i like the system because it's more interesting.. i didn't get any drops but i still like the system.. i say throw in unique drops that aren't spawned by the auctioneer or blackmarket and everyone should be pleased with the system

Demigod August 13 2009 12:35 PM EDT

I like the idea of disbursing non-transferable items, such as CB T-Shirts, via drops.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] August 13 2009 12:39 PM EDT

-8,100,100 sigh

QBRanger August 13 2009 12:40 PM EDT

Unique items would be a great idea.

But the loss of steady income, especially for older players who set up their character based upon the previous income levels, is very bad for them.

Lord Bob August 13 2009 1:08 PM EDT

I got a crappy Steel Familiar yesterday. This bring the total to:

An Elven Stiletto
A Steel Familiar

Two useless drops.
Might as well be nothing at all.

CombatSquirrel August 13 2009 7:14 PM EDT

So far, ToA lvl 20 and just now, CML +8

Godpanda August 13 2009 10:38 PM EDT

I love this system because all the ears have filled my in ground swimming pool! It's a bit salty, but I float better now! Hooray!

(On a serious note, really, the change isn't bad, but the current cost to buy BA and hire minions is ridiculously high in comparison to how much players make)

[Jedi] Danludar August 13 2009 11:55 PM EDT

Gloves of mercy i believe it was after 18k fights and thats was around 5k. Throw me a bone please(not literally :))

{WW]Nayab [Cult of the Valaraukar] August 14 2009 2:33 AM EDT

Previous Drops.
Katana [74x3] (+8)
Assassin's Crossbow [4x8] (+6)
Amulet of AC [0] (+7)
Lesser Steel Familiar lvl 20
An Elven Stiletto [55x1] (+0)
A Steel Familiar lvl 20

Varda is pleased with your victory and grants you a A Rune of Solitude lvl 20. Use it well!

Not a bad pick actually, definitely wasn't expecting it.
Now if i could only get something i actually need.

Shark August 14 2009 5:30 AM EDT

I believe that getting nothing is getting something >:)
but I don't think its PG

Challenged 29,962 and got nothing :) 'cept a headache lol

QBRanger August 14 2009 9:14 AM EDT

Tulkas is pleased with your victory and grants you a A Combat Gi [1] (+9). Use it well!

Brakke Bres [Ow man] August 14 2009 2:23 PM EDT

how is possible that some people gain so much and yet others gain absolutely nothing.

Its not like we don't fight

(0.0) August 14 2009 2:26 PM EDT

I haven't gotten anything for at least 10k fights and I've gotten 2 lesser tattoos so far.

QBRanger August 14 2009 3:09 PM EDT

"Its not like we don't fight "

But you have to win.

Remember we have been told fighting is not = to winning.

So that 1% or 2% loss rate may have taken all your drops :)

AdminNightStrike August 14 2009 3:17 PM EDT

It's a matter of when you fight, along with how much you fight, and also how much the entire community as a whole fights.

QBRanger August 14 2009 3:28 PM EDT

I was aware of the how much the community fights, and how much you fight (more specifically win), but how does when you fight matter?

Are the rares stored up waiting for someone to hit the lottery, or are they given out as soon as they spawn to the person whose fight/win is next?

PRDGY August 14 2009 7:20 PM EDT

i still haven't gotten a drop

Brakke Bres [Ow man] August 15 2009 5:51 AM EDT

So basically this lottery also favors the ones who buy BA every single day?

Can anyone say USD spender or NUB?

Great the rest of us are screwed in this matter. No I don't like the drop system and I like the option to opt out. As I don't care for the items that drop.

QBJohnnywas August 15 2009 6:19 AM EDT

I had two early on, but none since then. I pretty much don't miss a BA, including bought BA. The only time I'm not on and fighting is normally between about 7pm - Midnight server time.

So what impact does the 'when' have on the drops, or is the 'when' a random factor that I just happen to be missing for 19 hours of a day?

{WW]Nayab [Cult of the Valaraukar] August 15 2009 6:28 AM EDT

Henk, what you just said is not true.
I am proof of that.

I have gotten these drops:
Katana [74x3] (+8)
Assassin's Crossbow [4x8] (+6)
Amulet of AC [0] (+7)
Lesser Steel Familiar lvl 20
An Elven Stiletto [55x1] (+0)
A Steel Familiar lvl 20
A Rune of Solitude lvl 20

I am running a NCB and have bought about 20 BA since the introduction of this change.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] August 15 2009 10:29 AM EDT

i wonder if the "when" means that spawns are more likely at times of high fight activity? i will have to start watching to see if my drops occur during xp time and such.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] August 15 2009 12:25 PM EDT

Mandos is pleased with your victory and grants you a An Amulet of Junction [0] (+10)

gols090 [forge of me] August 15 2009 8:13 PM EDT

AoJ spawning +10 again? :o

I got MCM at 8:02 pm (10 mins ago if you're in a different time zone). Hope this info helps.

Gunny Pew Pew [Red Permanent Assurance] August 16 2009 3:58 AM EDT

Tulkas is pleased with your victory and grants you a An Elven Stiletto [55x3] (+9). Use it well!

My first drop.

CombatSquirrel August 16 2009 4:50 PM EDT

Just got an Electric Familiar. 2 drops in 36 hours.

Soul Eater August 16 2009 7:22 PM EDT

I've still yet to get anything.

Daz August 17 2009 12:45 AM EDT

Ulmo is pleased with your victory and grants you a A Buckler of Mandos [10] (+2). Use it well!

Blarg. Three days after I bought one :P

{WW]Nayab [Cult of the Valaraukar] August 17 2009 2:46 AM EDT

2 for the price of one Daz :P

Timberwolf August 17 2009 3:24 AM EDT

Tulkas is pleased with your victory and grants you a A Combat Gi [1] (+6). Use it well!

Came back from a 10 minute suspension and that was waiting for me.

gols090 [forge of me] August 17 2009 2:50 PM EDT

Elven stiletto x1 +0 -.-
About 14.5 hours ago.

RaptorX August 17 2009 4:13 PM EDT

I just got a base Kitana. Oooooo!! everyone with me say Oooooo. What will I do? . It's not worth much - saw one in store the other day. . about 15K maybe? It isn't even a rare. Anyway I have been fighting A LOT lately BTW. I was kinda cool - made me smile - till I realized what it was. I would rather have more money per fight.

{CB1}Sparticus [Screwed Justice] August 17 2009 5:25 PM EDT

WOOT. got my first drop :)

Ulmo is pleased with your victory and grants you a A Pair of Displacement Boots [0] (+6). Use it well!

Burton August 18 2009 3:32 AM EDT

Nothing since the last time I reported in this thread :/

MonkeyMandate [Wasting Time] August 18 2009 6:08 AM EDT

Ulmo is pleased with your victory and grants you a A Fire Familiar lvl 20. Use it well!

BluBBen August 18 2009 9:44 AM EDT

Mandos is pleased with your victory and grants you a A Pair of Gloves of Mercy [0] (+8). Use it well!

Yay! I finally got a drop! =D

Mikel August 18 2009 11:24 AM EDT

OMG Item Number 2!!

Tulkas is pleased with your victory and grants you a A Shadow Cloak [11] (+1). Use it well!

Admante August 18 2009 10:40 PM EDT

Mandos is pleased with your victory and grants you a A Morgul-Hammer [84x9] (+2). Use it well!

This is... odd. I fight barely 300 BA a week, only during money times, and I'm on my second item. It must be really horrible to fight 10k+ fights without a drop... My condolences.

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] August 19 2009 5:57 AM EDT

4th drop
Varda is pleased with your victory and grants you a A Katana [74x1] (+0). Use it well!
The ball has started rolling but I'm yet to find anything of value.
Gained a total of about 175k so far.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] August 19 2009 6:38 AM EDT

AdminNightStrike August 14 3:17 PM EDT
It's a matter of when you fight, along with how much you fight, and also how much the entire community as a whole fights.

ok so basically someone who only fights 300 BA and only during money time. So this means how much you fight and how much the community fights really has no meaning in the drop system, its just when you fight now? And seemingly most drops do not happen in the European time zone kinda sort of.

Daz August 19 2009 9:30 AM EDT

Mandos is pleased with your victory and grants you a A Mithril Chain Mail [28] (+8). Use it well!

Wow. Another drop.

QBsutekh137 August 19 2009 9:45 AM EDT

Wait...?

"AdminNightStrike August 14 3:17 PM EDT
It's a matter of when you fight, along with how much you fight, and also how much the entire community as a whole fights."

So someone who fights at simply a "less dense" time, as in, from a time zone that simply has fewer players, has a smaller chance of receiving a drop? Is that true?

If so, then this is far worse than I had even imagined. No lottery should be skewed as such.

Can we get clarification on this?

Daz August 19 2009 10:00 AM EDT

I had heard the same of bot checks at one point, as well.

For me, thats kind of terrible. I live in +8, meaning I'm asleep when most of the games fighting would take place...

QBsutekh137 August 19 2009 10:17 AM EDT

Yeah, because at least botchecks don't take away 20% of your income with a non-equitable return!

Rares should fall into a pool that is allowed to get big enough so that it is never quite empty. Then, every battle should have the same chance at getting one of the rares in that pool. In other words, the process just needs a buffer. If things are going immediately from spawn to drop, and spawn rates are based on overall fight volume, that isn't fair to off-peak fighters.

Demigod August 19 2009 10:28 AM EDT

"It's a matter of when you fight..."

Wha? That's news to me. NS/Jon, can we get a clarification here. How is the randomness skewed?

Rawr August 19 2009 12:14 PM EDT

"Tulkas is pleased with your victory and grants you a A Halidon Familiar lvl 20. Use it well!"

So far:
ToA
HoE
Exec
EB
SF
RoBF
Hal

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] August 22 2009 3:38 AM EDT

Got a Hal drop

Shark August 22 2009 5:00 AM EDT

oh well I only work 2 weeks a month and then only half the time, half of that time I'm here ..can't have it all now can ya ? :)

Dark Dreky August 22 2009 1:15 PM EDT

Still no drop over here.

CombatSquirrel August 22 2009 3:05 PM EDT

Elven Stiletto

hzarb August 22 2009 3:18 PM EDT

Still stuck with 2 lousy Katanas..

Shark August 22 2009 11:15 PM EDT

at least we got good company :) heh

Brakke Bres [Ow man] August 23 2009 6:24 AM EDT

ow my

From: system (6:21 AM EDT)
Mandos is pleased with your victory and grants you a A Cloak of the Istari [6] (+8). Use it well!

My first drop that isn't useless.

I'm so happy I could cry.

Shark August 23 2009 6:25 AM EDT

heh please dont get the server wet :)

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] August 28 2009 9:22 PM EDT

Another Hal

Mesoshort August 28 2009 9:40 PM EDT

Mandos is pleased with your victory and grants you a A Katana [74x10] (+7). Use it well!
Whoo.

[The Wretched]Freekie [Lower My Fees] August 28 2009 9:52 PM EDT

Heh i forgot all about drops... You guys can keep your Kats and Tats im a forger :P

Last Gasp August 28 2009 10:30 PM EDT

Mandos is pleased with your victory and grants you a Mithril Cuirass [36] (+9). Use it well!

My 5th item.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] August 28 2009 10:44 PM EDT

Wouldn't it be funny if drops were not entirely random?

Brakke Bres [Ow man] August 29 2009 5:31 AM EDT

since true random doesn't exist in the world of programming, that wouldn't strike me as odd

ArchieIl August 29 2009 10:19 AM EDT

there are "true" analog random generators in some chipsets but I doubt if anything except things like "encrypting key" generators use them.

My first own Atari computer had built in 8 bit random generator.
I have never tested it how good it was but it was part of noise generator chip with probably analog random generator part.

it is only a common believe that computers always use nothing more than "software" random numbers.

some time ago "Mandos gave me Shadow Cloak +4".

Dark Dreky August 29 2009 10:59 AM EDT

Still no drops for me.

Marlfox [Cult of the Valaraukar] August 29 2009 7:49 PM EDT

Mandos is pleased with your victory and grants you a A Steel Familiar lvl 20. Use it well!

BHT August 30 2009 12:42 AM EDT

From: system Sent: 12:36 AM EDT
Varda is pleased with your victory and grants you a A Cloak of the Istari [6] (+4). Use it well!

Drops to date:
Halidon Familiar
Gloves of Mercy +7
Pair of Altar's Gloves
Lesser Rune of Balrog Flame
A Morgul-Hammer [84x6] (+2)
Lesser Rune of Solitude
Cloak of the Istari +6
Cloak of the Istari +4

Est Value = 3.5Mil

{WW]Nayab [Cult of the Valaraukar] August 31 2009 4:35 AM EDT

Another Drop!!!!

From: system Sent: 4:29 AM EDT
Mandos is pleased with your victory and grants you a An Electric Familiar lvl 20. Use it well!

Shark August 31 2009 5:38 AM EDT

"Mandos hates the fact that your a loser and gives your stuff to someone else with your victory "

33,000 battles fought and not even a katana

Dark Dreky August 31 2009 9:03 AM EDT

Shark, I'm starting to think that drops aren't random.

Maybe it's our names?

Drama August 31 2009 9:13 AM EDT

16000 fights and I have not got any either.

gols090 [forge of me] August 31 2009 10:22 AM EDT

ToA about two hours ago.

In total:
Tattoo of Augmentation
Elven Stiletto
Mithril Chain Mail
Katana
Elven Stiletto
AlatarοΎ’s Gloves
Lesser Rune of Solitude
Mageseeker
Elven Stiletto
Fire Familiar

Note the three stilettos :D

NooneKnows August 31 2009 11:16 AM EDT

after 25k battles won, nothing here, either.

BluBBen August 31 2009 11:18 AM EDT

"Items found via random drop"

So why are people whining about not getting any items in the thread for telling when you get a drop?

QBRanger August 31 2009 11:23 AM EDT

Because they are very frustrated at the current system and are using this thread as a place to vent.

I find no problems with that as long as it is in proper taste.

NooneKnows August 31 2009 11:27 AM EDT

BluBBen: would you prefer we each started our own thread?

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] August 31 2009 1:37 PM EDT

My last 10k fights would have given me a lot of cash in extra. I wish I'd have that instead of nothing at all.

Tyriel [123456789] September 1 2009 6:27 AM EDT

Varda is pleased with your victory and grants you a A Buckler of Mandos [10] (+8). Use it well!

Daz September 1 2009 6:46 AM EDT

I'm still at BoM, MCM and Stiletto. The BoM was good!

{WW]Nayab [Cult of the Valaraukar] September 1 2009 5:12 PM EDT

Yet another drop.
From: system Sent: 5:06 PM EDT
Ulmo is pleased with your victory and grants you a A Katana [74x2] (+1). Use it well!

Previous Drops.
Katana [74x3] (+8)
Assassin's Crossbow [4x8] (+6)
Amulet of AC [0] (+7)
Lesser Steel Familiar lvl 20
An Elven Stiletto [55x1] (+0)
A Steel Familiar lvl 20
A Rune of Solitude lvl 20
An Electric Familiar lvl 20

Mikel September 1 2009 6:50 PM EDT

Oh yea, I guess this is still going on. I still have only had 2 drops.
How many months has this been going on?

Safe to say now, it slightly unbalanced in it's drops.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] September 1 2009 7:03 PM EDT

37k fights later I got a katana and a CoI. So that makes two drops for me roughly worth 600k but I lost 11.1mil to the day so I'm down 10.5mil

Demigod September 1 2009 7:11 PM EDT

Varda is pleased with your victory and grants you a An Amulet of Junction [0] (+10). Use it well!

YES! ::crotch-grinds monitor::

I think that was 28k fights since my previous drop.


Here's my updated list:

Spellboosters
Cornuthaum
Executioner's Sword
Elven Stiletto
Amulet of Junction

Three great drops and two turds. Not a bad ratio!

Marlfox [Cult of the Valaraukar] September 2 2009 7:17 AM EDT

Mandos is pleased with your victory and grants you a An Elven Stiletto [55x2] (+3). Use it well!

Yay.

Demigod September 3 2009 7:16 AM EDT

Ulmo is pleased with your victory and grants you a An Elven Stiletto [55x1] (+0). Use it well!

QBsutekh137 September 3 2009 9:36 AM EDT

Henk, you've lost 11 million? On just a 20% reduction? That means you make...55 million on 37K fights? That's $1500 in rewards per fight... Unless you're running a NUB, I doubt you are making that much...

???

I know I sure don't make 50 million in cash each couple of months.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] September 3 2009 9:43 AM EDT

But as always sutekh I'll explain it again

before the change I gained 725 on average for each fight, I'm now down to 425 for each fight

That is a 300 difference. 300 * 37000 = 11,100,000.

In the last 37000 fight I've gain 37000 * 425 = 15,725,000 which I did. And no I don't fight 37000 fights in a month it takes me a bit longer than that.

QBsutekh137 September 3 2009 9:52 AM EDT

Henk, if you are losing 300 bucks off of 725, that's way more than a 20% reduction. In fact, it's twice that, around 40%.

Are you sure about those reward numbers? If so, we should be asking for verification on the reward reduction instead of railing against the drop system, first of all.

Can anyone else verify that cash rewards are more like a 40% reduction instead of 20%? I'm afraid I never kept track before, so I can't do a good comparison now...

By the way, not sure I understand your attitude with "But as always..." You have some issue with me (and care to elaborate on it)? I was trying to figure out the numbers, and did, in fact, find a discrepancy. Could we bring the tone down a notch, maybe? After all, I dislike the drop system as much as anyone. We're on the same side, if there are sides.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] September 3 2009 11:58 AM EDT

no problem with you but I've explained this over and over. And this is like the 3rd time I did. I hate repeating.

QBsutekh137 September 3 2009 12:17 PM EDT

I apologize for not reading everyone elses posts on every thread, but that is sort of hard to do. I didn't know you had explained this before, and if you had, I would have pointed out the percentage discrepancy sooner.

It sounds like we need another thread titled, "Have Cash Rewards Dropped Way More Than 20%???" where folks that know the before and after can compare numbers. But if there is a clear " * 0.8" in the cash rewards programming, I don't see how your cash rewards can be down 40%...
This thread is closed to new posts. However, you are welcome to reference it from a new thread; link this with the html <a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002qIu">Items found via random drop Part 3</a>