More congrats to Kitty (in Off-topic)
October 19 2005 10:32 PM EDT
Time for more congrats to Kitty:
Score / PR / MPR: 1,016,295 / 962,532 / 687,603
Score / PR / MPR: 1,036,839 / 1,037,032 / 746,169
So a growth of about 60k in 7 days. She is certainly slowing down. Now averaging only about 9k MPR a day. A big decrease as she approaches the top characters from the 10k a day she was getting.
But, on the plus side, she is already 7th highest MPR with only 57 more days to go in her NUB.
I am personally guessing, if her fight amount does not slow down, she will get to about 1.15 to 1.2 million MPR by the time her NUB is over.
At my growth, taking into account a couple vacations I will have in November I will be about 1.05 million MPR by then.
But, contrary to those who think otherwise, at this point I am truely hoping for her to not just pass by me, but rocket by. Just to prove my point that the NUB is overpowerful for the time it is.
Thank you for your time and I wait with bated breath the cutdowns and insults from Almuric as well as others.
October 19 2005 10:43 PM EDT
I doubt it ranger. she wil probably end at like 900k mpr
my bet is 1 mil MPR. We should do some sort of contest.
! Love Barney
October 19 2005 11:03 PM EDT
3 cheers for kitty
Hip hip. . .
Hip hip. . .
Hip hip. . .
October 19 2005 11:05 PM EDT
, Ilovehellokitty said "I still have 1million exp on each minion untrain" -- her MPR will be quite a bit higher once she trains all that.
And congrats to Kitty!
Ranger, I'm really starting to find your nub-related posts offensive.
As a QB you are supposed to be a role model, someone who gives to the community, helpful, someone to emulate. You've been that person in the past and I respected you for it.
But it seems to me that a lot of your recent posts have been the complete opposite of that ideal. You come across as a whiney jerk with nothing better to do than offer backhanded compliments to another player. Another player who is playing the game by the rules, working hard to improve her character, and generally being the role model that you are supposed to be.
Please stop this. I know you feel the nub is unfair and negates the hard work you've put into your character. By all means, try to convince Jon that the game would be better with a modified/removed nub. But there's no reason you should treat Kitty this way.
Am I misreading your tone?
(I hope so, cause you really sound like a jerk here)
October 20 2005 12:14 AM EDT
Ranger it's fairly obvious your congratulations aren't genuine, I have to ask, why do you continue to make posts like this?
You've argued your point, there's no new points here that you haven't made in many other posts. I happen to agree with you that the NUB is overpowered but really do you have to restate your point time and time again?
If Jon sees fit to reduce the NUB, he will. Sarcastic "you had your chance and blew it" posts as well as fake congrats posts like this won't change that.
October 20 2005 12:53 AM EDT
As I have said before, I see 1 million, tops.
Ranger, judging each of your posts on their own merit (no past, no future, just the internal language), they are losing meaning. They aren't statistical, they aren't congratulatory, they don't really have any direction.
When I "act out" in that fashion (yes, I am projecting), it means I am being exceedingly passive aggressive.
Kitty is playing hard, and playing well. Certainly nothing to detract from on that front. No, she hasn't played as long as you, nor could she ever (the time continuum being what it is).
I, for one, can follow Kitty's growth just fine without the occasional "congratulations" from you. You know I respect you (I hope) and that I value you as a member of CB. So I am not speaking lightly here. I honestly do not believe that I deserve QB and I honestly believe that you do.
But please. Stop. We'll see where Kitty is at at the end of her NUB and we will muddle through it all at that point. If your animosity toward the NUB is well-founded, isn't it worthwhile to wait for the truth and see how it all pans out?
October 20 2005 12:55 AM EDT
(Yes, I am being pedantic, especially in light of the insightful posts from Sukotto and Derek. I am a forum whore, sorry.)
! Love Barney
October 20 2005 12:57 AM EDT
u guys are putting kitty at the center of this. . .argument?
its ok kitty. . .you can come out
/me throws a ball of yarn in kittys direction.
/me caught it and ran to Supreme chatroom to "do something" with Biscuitback.
October 20 2005 12:59 AM EDT
Bush, "we" have done nothing of the sort, and I am not looking for an argument.
October 23 2005 11:38 AM EDT
I thought it was overpowered when I had it, and that was a while back. It still is, and it will still be brought up time and time again until some semblance of balance is restored.
Why do you see quite a few top 20 characters up for sale right now? People are getting tired of dedicating alot of time to the game only to get blown by. And it will continue to happen. I sold off Mikel simply because at that time he was the highest he'll ever be on the MPR Charts with the current setup. I didn't want to see him passed by anyone while he was under my control.
If I didn't have so much stuff, you bet I'd be tempted to start all over with the NUB. It already is causing a lot of Multi's do we really want to go down this path? The admins have already said that they ignore IP's from AOL. So there you go.
So SutekhTDestroyer you question what Ranger is saying, but you aren't sticking up for the silent majority out there, you are just taking Jon's side instead of admitting that there is a problem and trying to do something about it yourself. Kitty is doing nothing wrong, she's just playing with in the rules and being active. I played within the confines of the game rules and got my nub time cut in half, so where were you when that happened to me? Fair is Fair right? Isn't the NUB in itself an exploit of the game in it's current setup? The problem with it is it's not available to everyone, if it were then we could all have the same advantage.
Ranger has never said there shouldn't be a NUB, but the way it's currently setup is overpowered, and again I agree. He's continously pointing this out over and over again because of the imbalance it causes in the game. Which is what a QB is supposed to be doing instead of bashing another QB for doing what is right.
October 23 2005 11:50 AM EDT
You are brimming over with wrongability, Mikel. I said nothing of the sort.
My point is very, very, fantastically simple, and it stems from my laziness and lack of know-how. I am not good at extrapolating where Kitty will be by the end of her NUB. The end of her NUB is not all that far off, so let's just wait and see where she is at the end of it. As I told Ranger in CMs, if she has blown by Ranger in MPR by then, I will be the first in line to moan about it. Hell, I will push other people out of the way just to complain (I'm an attention whore in case folks didn't know *smile*).
But until then, sideways compliments and monitoring are only going to be incendiary at best. How hard is it to just wait and see what happens by the time her NUB is through? By that time, we can also analyze further her fight density. If she really has used BA 24x7 for her entire NUB, and that puts her over the top, then we will all have to consider that before complaining. It still might be perceived as an injustice, but at least we will have all the facts at that point.
October 23 2005 12:12 PM EDT
"I thought it was overpowered when I had it, and that was a while back. It still is, and it will still be brought up time and time again until some semblance of balance is restored."
--Mikel, 11:38 AM EDT
"The NUB is fine the way it is as I've said all along."
Mikel, August 22 2005 10:05 PM EDT
Oops, looks like you actually did have a change of heart at some point. I assume this had nothing to do with the expiring of your own NUB...
October 23 2005 12:17 PM EDT
As far as current BA usage goes, I crunched a few numbers:
The Apocalypse Book:
Age: 295 days
Challenged per day: 1270
Age: 67 days
Challenged per day: 1416
Now, Ranger has been in 7/10 BA accumulation for a looooong time. So, let's say on average his BA accrual is a 7 while Kitty's is an 8 (as she went through the 10/10, 9/10, and 8/10 rates on the way to her current 7/10). This is only an estimation.
Ranger at 7 and Kitty at 8 means Kitty _should_ have 1/7, or 14.3% more challenges at this point. Ranger's 1270 x 1.14 yields 1447.
Estimate or not, it means Ranger has been an absolute BA demon for 295 days. Maybe Kitty has been at 7/10 for longer than I am thinking, so let's make her a 7.5 instead of an 8... That means a percentage different of about 7.1%. That takes Ranger's 1270 up to 1361.
I don't really have a point to this numerical vomit other than to say that Ranger's BA usage for nearly 300 days has ben quite exceptional. Kitty's usage has also been exceptional (albeit for a shorter time). If Kitty has exceeded Ranger's MPR by the time her NUB ends, I will be somewhat non-plussed. (Yes, Mikel, I am capable of coming out on the "anti" side against the NUB from time to time...)
October 23 2005 12:37 PM EDT
I am sure you as almost everyone else knows, its far far easier to be a BA demon for 2 months, hell even 3 or 4, then it is for 10.
For me, that is one of the two great injustices of the NUB. The other being the tattoo on steroids I have seen. I have spent over 10 months levelling my tattoo to its level, only to possibly be passed by someone levelling a tattoo (that was bought/insta'd) for 3-4 months.
October 23 2005 1:07 PM EDT
My NUB bonus was almost half of what it is now.
That makes a BIG difference.
October 23 2005 1:14 PM EDT
You bring up a great point.
Those that have the NUB love it.
Those that do not, (well most) hate it.
Is that good for the overall health of the game?
I am sure there is a middle ground that most all of us would like.
Please wait to get angry with those of us older player about our distaste for the NUB until after you have not had it for 3 or 4 months and see new players shoot by you in MPR and cb2$. Then you tell me if its fair. And remember that the NUB at that time will be over 2x what it is now.
October 23 2005 1:25 PM EDT
October 23 2005 1:27 PM EDT
Gotta love those valuable posts from Wonderpuff. His insight is stunning. :P
October 23 2005 1:28 PM EDT
"Gotta love those valuable posts from Wonderpuff."
Interesting, I was going to say the same about our outstanding QB, who's obviously living up to his title.
October 23 2005 1:39 PM EDT
QB does not mean one loses opinions.
October 23 2005 2:05 PM EDT
Depends on which QB you are referring to? I think Ranger's point is very valid, and my points were just kind of random facts. And yes, I am with wuss on the fact that a QB can still have whatever opinions he wishes...
Ranger, I did not comment on whether or not it is easier or harder to maintain high BA usage for a longer time. That much is self-evident to the extent that I will leave the exercise to the reader.
When Kitty's NUB is done, I will re-do my analysis, probably using a factor of 7.2 or so for her (she has been 7/10 for a long time, I would guess). Emphasis on "when Kitty's NUB is done."
October 23 2005 2:31 PM EDT
Sutekh, you are forgetting that in May, Jon increased the amount of BA we can buy by 50%. That's another reason why Ranger's challenged battles per day is a little lower and an advantage that NUB players joining after the May change have.
October 23 2005 2:57 PM EDT
Oh I agree the QB should be able to have opinions!
Its just when the same person is whining about the same thing
(I just got tired of going looking, this probably could have gone on for pages).
We all know you don't like the NUB Ranger, we got the picture months back.
Then again, no one is forcing me to read his threads and replies I guess...
October 23 2005 3:14 PM EDT
Fantastic point, Intox. I had completely forgotten about that. It is another thing that should be considered when Kitty's NUB is over and we analyze the situation.
Intox 's statement is completely false. Sorry !
October 23 2005 3:20 PM EDT
Kitty, Intox's point is factual. The interpretation is subjective, but it is a fact that someone starting after May would have more BA available to buy than someone who started before May. I am not saying you did, in fact, buy more BA. BA usage is very nearly impossible to judge, and I am not coming down on you at all. I am trying to cover all facets of the situation and am saying to wait until the smoke has cleared to apply them. I think you are a fantastic CBer, as does Ranger.
October 23 2005 3:23 PM EDT
I am quite sure you missed a few with your post. But thank you for bringing up the past posts. It should gather more attention to them.
If you do not like my opinions, please move to North Korea where everyone has to tow the party line.
How can something that is disliked by so many (and I am not alone is my distaste of the NUB) be good for the game?
And, if you forget I made numerous posts about Monty before he was finally banned. So sometimes one has to point out the problem, in multiple ways, before it gets taken care of.
But as you said, perhaps you should just not view my post and save yourself some heartache.
And for Wonderpuff:
Again, a delightfully insightful post into the pros and cons of the NUB. In fact I have noticed that almost all your posts and chat is made to irritate and inflame people rather then to discuss things, offer opinion and suggest alternatives.
Just because you made a programming contribution to the game (and yes, it is phenomenal) does not give you the right to insult people for the fun of it.
can any admin (or who can) please change the title of the post please :P
Anything without my name in it is fine. I shall not be by no means try to spoil Rarnage Blender. And i hope the same respect goes to me :P
Thank you. Happy Sunday everyone
<---Shade made this cute portrait for me. It's so cuttttteeeee!
October 23 2005 4:14 PM EDT
I don't need to move anywhere, you forget we play in a Jonocracy and he has no intention of removing the NUB as he has stated many a time. I think if you can't handle that fact, you should quit like you feigned to a few months back in order to attempt to make a point.
October 23 2005 4:23 PM EDT
Once again Tezmac, you have not read my posts.
I have never asked for the NUB to be removed. I have always said a NUB of some sorts is certainly needed. It is the length and amount of the NUB that currently is the problem. Especially when someone who is playing for just over 2 months now has a top 5 MPR character with just under 2 months STILL on the NUB.
And while we live/play in a Jonocracy, things have been known to change. Its called Change Month. You should know that since your have been through a few yourself.
But instead of saying "our QB is an idiot", why do you not say if you agree or disagree with the NUB as it is, and add useful posts.
But instead of trolling my post, why not just start one of your own.
October 23 2005 4:23 PM EDT
why change the title? its purrrfect ;)
congrats Kitty :)
October 23 2005 4:28 PM EDT
I have a huge head. So I am going to say this. Can't we just wait and see what happens when Kitty's NUB is done? I love Ranger. I love Tezmac. I love Hello Kitty. I love Jonathan. And, most importantly, I love myself.
Love is patient. Love is kind. Love has an "L" in it.
I am tipsy. All the more reason to believe that I am the greatest entity in the cosmos. Heed my words!
October 23 2005 4:52 PM EDT
Ranger, the incessant drumbeat of your discontent is extremely tiresome. If the QB is supposed to represent all that CB stands for, then your representation would lead me to believe that CB is a pit of bitter disappointment.
I suspect that your online re-enactment of the jilted girlfriend routine is doing more to make the administration dig their heels in than it is helping persuade them. If you are in a place in your life where you can get so worked up about a computer game that it inspires you to post spiteful snarky messages about people who are just trying to play... perhaps it is time for you to take a break.
This protracted fit is, for a grown person, shameful.
October 23 2005 5:04 PM EDT
Wonder, I don't mind your post. But can you tell me what the fact that Ranger is a QB has to do with it?
I always like this kind of post. It's fun to read.
I'm all the way with Ranger in this regards.
For many months I've given a crack at top 5 but just couldn't get to it. Sacrificing many sleepless night and time at work. Burning all BA possible and getting clan MVP for the month. It really seems impossible. I'll have another attempt to change my strat to give another crack at the top 5, but if it doesn't work, I'll have to sell and start over at my leisure time and will not be playing as much because it's just useless.
It's already almost impossible to reach the top but to see a newbie passes you in a such a short time hurts more than being unable to reach the top.
Obviously Jon knows about this situation but chose to ignore it. In this respect we can't do much (hey, it's his game, his creation).
There are always 2 type of programmers. One who does the wrong thing the right way and one who does the right thing the wrong way. It's hard to find the 3rd, one who does the right thing the right way.
BTW, another congrats to kitty. Well done.
(MVP not in spell checker?)
October 23 2005 5:11 PM EDT
Because, like the Nub and Ranger, there are a handful of people who think being QB means you are a happy person who loves everything about CB.
October 23 2005 5:13 PM EDT
I think some people perceive that since I am a QB I have to agree with everything in the game as it is. And not have my own opinion on how to make the game better for everyone.
And if I disagree not to be too forceful about it.
But thats why a QB is nominated every quarter. So I'll be looking forward to the next set of nominations. Since there are people who seem to think a QB should be a yesman/woman to Jon and not have their own opinions or be forceful about inequalities in the game. I am looking forward to having Wonderpuff and/or Tezmac as a fellow QB if that is what the community wants.
October 23 2005 5:18 PM EDT
So, the constant tearing down and mocking others opinions on your part Wonderpuff, is warranted? Ranger has every right (whether he is young or old) to rant and rave about things he likes or dislikes. We all know that kitty is and has been very dedicated to her use of BA and the NUB, she would not be where she is had she not, her MPR growth has stalled which makes me think she is saving all her exp and not training. Only by waiting until her NUB expires will we really know her full growth.
Many top players, myself included decided to sell out for various reasons. I do not completely blame the NUB, but it was a major factor in my decision and I think others as well. I think it is great that kitty is excelling the way she is, however, when you have been playing for 10 months and she has for 2 or 3, and she passed your MPR, and Tattoo level like you were taking a rest on a sunday afternoon, that is a bit disheartening. I tried to compensate for my non-nub status with usd use, while this was effective I felt that I did not want to maintain my character through usd when mages and nubs around me were inching ever closer with only time and not having to spend usd to compete. Yes, the arguement could be made that I chose my strategy and yes I did, however, through various change months and game changes, the tank being a viable option is diminishing without NUB or usd involvement.
Anyway, long story short, people can have opinions, the personal attacks are getting much more tiresome to me than the NUB complaints. If you have to resort to personal attacks and demeaning remarks, then you should just keep that to yourself and not pollute the CB community with your words which add nothing of value.
October 23 2005 5:22 PM EDT
Yeah! what some of them ^ said...I just wanted to feel involved in the convo. :D
October 23 2005 5:34 PM EDT
It's one thing to disagree. Adults do that regularly.
It's another to convert yourself into a broken record. My four-year-old does that, on occasion.
October 23 2005 5:44 PM EDT
A broken record when something is broken... I sure would be vocal about something broken until it was fixed too.
October 23 2005 5:45 PM EDT
i brought this up before.
why doesn't jon like implement a bonus for battles fought? like a percent the top clans get. just something that'll give a bonus to the dedicated, and still let the NUB bonus take affect. the only people that will be left behind, are the people not putting in time and effort.
October 23 2005 6:13 PM EDT
I have to say one thing to clear up a point of contention.
I have no ill will towards Kitty in any way/shape/form. Unfortunately it seems that way as Kitty is the one rocketing to the top.
I personally think what Kitty is doing is outstanding and playing by the rules set in place.
Just as I pointed out Mikel's growth, I am now pointing out Kitty's in an effort to show how disproportionate it is.
While some may think I am an idiot for thinking the NUB is too much, it is my opinion and one that I feel the need to state. Now some may/will say that all I am doing is upsetting people. Well if that is happening, then you are taking all my posts far too seriously. It's only a game, something to pass the time. If you get upset from my posts about the NUB, then you need to seek professional help.
But, I will counter that with a reference to Monty. For those who came in late: For the longest time, Monty was borrowing money and selling it for USD, at times saying he needed to pay for fixing his computer so he could play cb to payback people. He was over 30 million in debt in cb2 and over 200 million (or close) in cb1. It took many, many posts from quite a few people before the problem was addressed.
Take that as you will. Dislike my posts or not. But please leave personal attacks out of it. Lets keep it in the game, with reference to the game, and only about the game. Life is too hard to let it get to us in RL.
October 23 2005 7:03 PM EDT
I doubt anyone will argue that it is bad to have a mechanism in place for new users to become competitive. The recurring theme I see in "NUB is unbalanced" posts isn't in if new players deserve a chance, it is 1) how long it should take for new players to become competitive, and 2) how exactly is competitive defined.
From what I gather, competitive has been defined as having a shot at being number 1, otherwise (as some other people have said) what is the point in continuing to fight? I can't reasonably see anyone arguing that the game design should exclude those who join later from a shot at number 1. Having heard about the game earlier doesn't mean you own a greater portion of the game, theoretically it should mean that you've had more time to enjoy CB. (Hopefully the assumption that CB'ers are playing for entertainment is a safe one.). If someone disagrees with this analysis of where a NUB should have the opportunity to end up (assuming they play hard), I would appreciate your take on it. What should competitive be defined as, and assuming a situation just like this one: A player's played hard since the beginning (Ranger, TAB), and a new player comes along...where should they end up if they CB as hard or harder than the veteran? Where should they end up in regards to casual players (800 BA/day players)?
I often see in these threads that people are discouraged to see new players rocket by. So, the problem is not necessarily having been passed, but how long it takes to be passed. How much time should it take for a new player to pass you? I have heard people advocate a sliding scale: base the length of the NUB on how long the game has been in existence. CB2's almost a year old, and won't be getting any younger. Will it still be a reasonable format when CB is 2 or 3 years old? Not that a fixed scale is perfect, as the bonus increases each missed BA counts for more and more. If it stays at the current length, given enough time, one missed set of BA will be a week or month of normal playing. So how long and difficult should it be for a new user to catch up? If 4 months is too short, and 2 years is (quite likely) too long, where is the happy medium?
October 23 2005 8:19 PM EDT
it's one thing to have an opinion.
it's another to be a jerk and constantly remind everyone how wronged you are when you don't get your way.
adults can do the former without the latter.
October 23 2005 8:32 PM EDT
When I find that jerk, i'll personally beat him senseless!
But seriously, I have not been wronged, for goodness sake it's only a game. It is just my opinion that something is a bit overpowered in the game we all like quite a lot.
If I say it a bit too much, thats part of my personality, a bit in your face, New Yorker type. But no where have I been unPG, or insulting to anyone unlike others in the forums that have started in on me.
The only person that I may have insulted is Kitty and I tried to set the record straight with a post above. I have also CM'd her in an attempt to set things right with her. For that, if she took offense, I am sorry.
One of the best parts of the game is the chat and forums. The chance to state who we, the players, feel about issues and discuss them in a PG sort of way.
October 23 2005 8:35 PM EDT
Now, about Tezmac and Mikel's inexplicable MPR loss?
October 23 2005 9:51 PM EDT
Ok I just wanted to point out a couple of things to (and in some cases about) a couple of people.
Ranger: You have a valid point. In fact it is a point that has been a major factor in a lot of people leaving cb (myself included, except of course the random thread post.) However it is a point that has not changed in a long time. I understand that repetition is a very powerful motivator for change, but please either a) have new information (and kitty's MPR growth is not really new and will only be truly usable as data when her NUB is over) or b) present it in a different manner (i.e. your threads on this subject have become almost cookie-cutter replicas of the previous ones) Having, and stating, an opinion is a vital part of the QB role but try not to become stale, it does not help your case.
Wonderpuff: You say that Ranger is being childish by becoming a "broken record" but isn't throwing gasoline on a fire just to watch the flare-up rather childish as well?
Sut: Don't ever doubt yourself. You deserved QB in cb1 and you deserve it here as well.
Kitty: Congratulations on all your accomplishments to date and I sincerely hope (and expect) that you will continue to do well here long after your NUB is over. We all (Ranger included I am sure) realize that you are an awesome player and would have found your way into the top ranks regardless of the NUB. Don't ever think that the fuss about it is about you. :)
And Finally last but not least
Jonathan: The amount of contradictions in this game simply baffles me, especially surrounding the NUB. You give players higher rewards as they progress and give exemptions to the people in the very top spots (i.e. the fighting down penalty exemption for the top ten) yet you give a bonus to new players. These things seem to be in direct conflict with each other, one being set up to give the top players a bonus and the other set up to give new players a bonus (incidentally leaving the mid-level players out in the cold.) Maybe the solution to the uproar about the NUB lies in removing the bonuses that the top players get and then lessening (or possibly even removing) the NUB. In other words take a way the things that make the NUB necessary instead of constantly trying to give each group of people what they need to be get over the bonuses the other group(s) are already getting.
October 23 2005 10:48 PM EDT
the top-player exemption isn't a bonus so much as a nonpenalty.
this is more than semantics, if you think about it.
October 23 2005 10:49 PM EDT
If there was a top player bonus, I want mine in arrears. I never got the check so-to-speak. :P
Indeed and the rewards may rise at bigger mpr but the BA refresh also goes down and in my experience once you get near the top rewards drop as you run out of favorite prey type teams that you can hit up against for good rewards.
October 23 2005 11:37 PM EDT
my brain hurts...
October 23 2005 11:58 PM EDT
From what I understand, people seem to be complaining that Ranger is continually bringing up the NUB issue. No one's forcing you to read the threads.
I think that Ranger's point is definitely worthy of attention.
Again Kitty, we are pointing out what we think are problems with the NUB. Your character is just used as an example, as was Mikel's and Derek's.
Personally, I believe that the players with the NUB are better situated to get into the top 10 (in MPR) than those of us that started early, especially if the NUB player starts and ends with a RoE. Derek admitted to missing quite a lot of BA daily, but he was growing at a faster rate than Kitty (because of the RoE). Imagine if he would've fought as much as Ranger and held onto his char, Invisible. He'd probably be getting close to Ranger's MPR by now.
Ranger's arguing about the rate that characters using the NUB are able to grow. Jon did nerf the NUB, but was it enough?
Kitty certainly hasn't maximized her BA usage. She's done better than about all the NUB players with BA usage, but I recall her missing quite a bit of BA her first month, then improved the second month.
Since the day her character started, I know that I've missed less BA than her. I've fought consistently and have bought daily for the past four to five months, or so. However, my past haunts me. I did not buy daily the first five or six months. Primarily, because I was focusing most my attention on getting to the top in CB1 (a lost cause, I know). I guess I can only blame myself for not being near the top.
Like Sutekh, I think that a NUB player passing Ranger, CB's most dedicated player, is somewhat dissapointing. I also agree that this needs to be evaluated at the end of her NUB. Will she be close to Ranger's MPR? Will she significantly pass him? Only time will tell.
As for me, I realize that I'm going to be passed by several NUB players such as Bunker, Mordster, and perhaps a couple others. The only thing I can do about it is to fight as much as I can, maximize my rewards, and use an RoE. They are obstacles I believe I can overcome. I think I'll be able to pass them once their NUB ends, simply because I fight more than they do. Take Vestax's Off Air, for example. I knew I was going to be passed, but I patiently waited for his NUB to end and I'm in the process of zeroing in on his MPR.
So in the end... The more dedicated players get the last laugh.
Oh, and thanks for the compliment, Sutekh. It makes me feel... Useful! =D
October 24 2005 5:08 AM EDT
Ok, the things I like about this post.
Sutekh's tipsy-ness - it's almost GentlemanLoser-like in it's beauty.
Should we be putting hearts and flowers around Shade and Kitty? Such a show of love in the middle of a battlefield...
And my realisation that Ranger is George from Seinfeld
October 24 2005 7:59 AM EDT
Its the Summer of Ranger!!!
She will pass you all...=) GO KITTY!! ^_^
October 27 2005 7:20 AM EDT
that is the one of the points of this thread aupStar.
Just wanted to put extra emphasis on that very point mikel...;)
As opposed to complaining about a problem I see very little solutions.
I have a suggestion for this that I have posted about before.
Give everyone an adjustable NUB.
Make this NUB on a case by case basis for each person relative to where they are on the food chain.
Higher NUB for the bottom guys lower NUB for the top guys, and the highest NUB for me :) j/k
This will allow people to take breaks from time to time
This will also allow the people at the top to remain there if they play well and continuously, while, at the same time, giving everyone a chance for the top spot, not just the new players.
I don't see why this wouldn't work and solve everyone's problems.
People who play the most (say in a three month span) with the best game play decisisons for a given set of time (three months) will be at the top.
Adjust the NUB daily, weekly, or what have you.
People are upset because it's not the same across the board.
If you want to have a NUB to give new players a chance, have a NUB for everyone.
This makes new players happy, old timers stuck in the middle happy, and top players happy.
Obviously top players will have more to lose but at least they won't feel cheated.
It reminds me of something that video games do from time to time ... like racing games .. some games call it 'boost', but the concept is simple .. the farther behind you are from the leader the more 'boost' you get. The closer you are to the top the less 'boost' you get. Of course that's just the concept ... if it would work then I'm all for it, but only time could tell i suppose..
I love you Kitty so so much!
That is precisely the point chappy.
And like racing games if you stay on your game you'll stay ahead but if you crash (take a break from playing) you'll get passed.
Again like racing gamesl if you do crash you still have a chance to catch up.
The concept of the New User Bonus stems from two things: 1) an incentive for new players to play (lessons learned from CB1), and 2) a method to kill the learning curve (give bonuses while you don't know what you're doing so that once you learn, you aren't at square one).
Number One is easy. Without the New User Bonus, there is absolutely no reason for anyone new to come join CB2. They will get absolutely nowhere without adding massive amounts of USD and getting giant handouts from top players. I finally came to realize this recently. I grew tired of having to bum everything off of Sefton (Thank you, Sefton. You define "QB"), and bit the bullet. Just to be able to COMPETE at my then 20k MPR, I had to drop significant USD into this game. I now bought my way up to 30k MPR with some armour and a big tattoo. Woot. 30k MPR.
When I joined, I had a bouns of 70%. It jumped to 80% around May/June-ish. Now, it's gone. Prior to July, this would not have been a problem. Why? Well, there has always been a mechanism in place for old (read: non-bonused), small MPR players to gain ground -- camping. It's the only place where someone with a few pennies can get a fast break. Nab an item for pennies on the dollar, sell it off for piles of cash, and finally get the tattoo you needed. Then, you turn around and fight for two weeks straight, actually WINNING this time, and gain XXk MPR.
That's how people COULD have gone from where I am to where I want to be without the 982378243% bonus applied.
Camping is gone. Where did all of those "lottery" chances go? To the auction..... Ok, everyone gets a fair chance now. But do they? Not really. No longer can I luck out and nab a rare at pennies on the dollar. Now, everything is sold at fair market value. I remember hearing everyone talk about how this will help curb USD spending. But has it? Not at all. Now, instead of spending USD on items, people spend USD on cash. That's what I had to do. I just bought... I dunno... 15m? After all is said and done, maybe 20m. That's $300. And I was forced to do it because there is no other possible way to get ahead (short of abusing the good will of Sefton.) What the auction vice camping wound up doing was separating people like me -- small, no bonus -- from people with giant characters and piles of cash who can bid $5m on a rare without batting an eyelash. Why bother bidding? I can't win. It's impossible for me to win an auction on a rare given my bankroll (prior to "selling out" to USD.)
[An idea just popped into my head... make the rare auctions have unknown times left on them, and bids are randomly selected as winning... maybe.. I dunno... nevermind. It's a lost cause.]
Anyway, back to the topic at hand. Without camping, there is nothing left to give people under 500k MPR any possible chance at succeeding at this game (Sefton can't give free stuff to all 5000+ members). should there be a way to give us that chance? I think so.
That leads into Numer Two. The idea is that anyone with half a brain, a single minion DD mage, and a New User Bonus can make it to at least 500kMPR. At that point, boys become men and the real fighting strategies enter in. The real game starts (see below for the Real Game.) But... what if you never made it to 500k? What do you do? You can't start over -- you will have you character reset. What if you need more learning time? What if you can't spend 8278973274 hours a day playing this game? Should I just pack up and leave? What if I didn't have the benefit of piles of CB1 knowledge, or a personal mentor? I didn't meet Sefton until much afer I started, and I couldn't play this game at all during the summer. Should I even bother playing? Should I wait until CB3 comes out, and say "Screw it" until then?
There needs to be a better way. New Users need a bonus -- few deny that. The game will stagnate otherwise (see CB1). There's more than new users, however, that need that bonus. I do, too. I dropped several hundred into this game in the last 4 weeks, and I haven't changed much.
The reality behind this game is that it is a single-file ladder-ranked system. In the days of yore, a game like this was better known as King of the Hill. The concept of that game is quite simple -- you try to get to the top of the hilla nd knock the person down who's already there. The catch is that it's a lot easier to knock someone off the top than it is to actually stay there. The result is that the Top Player keeps changing, and people can keep progressing. That's what the New User Bonus does for new players against the guy at the top. It makes it so that it's harder to stay at the top than it is to get there.
That makes perfect sense... *****While you're at the top, the difficulty of staying there should increase exponentially to the time spent there.******
That's the Real Game. Or, at least, it should be.
If I had started this in HTML, I'd have bolded that. Too late now. Anyway, I'm finishing up on the point of this post.
The bonus is there to keep the game fresh and growing. The bonus got giant because the #1 position got giant. It was 70% when I started. The bonus also helps people learn. I learned slower than others because I work 3 jobs, run my own business, go to school, maintain a relationship, etc etc etc. My bonus ran out before I was ready for it to run out. Solution #1: Base the timer on the bonus on BA used, not time since account creation.
People in my position have no chance at getting anywhere without handouts or piles of USD. Assuming camping is gone forever, there are other solutions: Base the BA allottment on MPR, and increase it ALOT. Let me earn more than 160, or let me earn faster than 1bpm (BA per minute). Create an inverse function on MPR growth. 100kMPR = 1bpm. 1kMPR = 10bpm. Make it non-linear. Something like that. Cut the BA cost based on MPR, something like normal price * NW(in millions)/MPR. um... check that math. See, the idea is to not give out free rewards... the idea is to let us work overtime to earn more. The system is already in place -- just dichotimize it to a greater degree. The system is already there to give the #1 guy less bpm and me more. Heighten that gap.
.......I think I've said enough.... I can't *WIAT* to see what the spell checker does with this post.... especially "dichotimize".
"Just to be able to COMPETE at my then 20k MPR, I had to drop significant USD into this game. I now bought my way up to 30k MPR with some armour and a big tattoo. Woot. 30k MPR."
If this is the case either you have a very odd definition of the word compete or Sefton should have been giving you some advice along with the items. Exactly what do you mean when you say you couldn't compete at 20k mpr without putting in USD, it just makes no sense to me.
October 28 2005 6:12 AM EDT
Nightstrike, what exactly did you spend your money on? The mechanics of the game are such that you can get up into the upper ranks without having to spend anything if you want.
I started my character Jack Crow at the end of March. I have never had a NUB, I work a full time job, I was arranging my wedding/marriage/honeymoon, I'm a musician in a gigging band. In other words outside of CB I have a life, and a busy one at that. Yet, by the middle of August my character was in the top 30. I may sound like an old fart now but if you want to be competitive you have to work hard. Bonuses, USD and all those things don't help you if you're not putting the work in.
I bought an EC, MC, MgS, and a big tattoo. The tattoo was what really pushed me over the top and allowed me to start winning. Sefton gave me one for free, then I upgraded to Oddbird's so that I could hit my max tattoo rating. And, for the record, Sefton's given me plenty of advice. The objective, however, is not to have him just play my character. It's for him to give guidance, and that he did.
You were able to hit T30 from March to August. Congratulations. I was learning during that time. Around August, I started to develop actual skills in the game. August is far too late, however, for that to happen w/o adding SOMETHING external.
I am aware that hard work is what's required, and if you think I don't, you didn't read my post. Reread it. Specifically, read the section detailing how to give people in my position a fighting chance -- don't hand them a top spot. Instead, give them the BA to be able to work at it. Without knowledge, the BA is useless, and thus the implementation is fair.
By "unable to compete", I meant that I would have to fight people well below me, and I could only beat maybe one out of every 20 people I fought. Further, people that I fought only lost against me half the time. Also, when I found a person I could beat, it only lasted for a few days. Then, he would soar past me.
now, I am doing much better. My score was stuck at 40k for a while. Then, it jumped to 80k. It's amazing what a tattoo at your max level purchased with USD can do for a character.
The cheese cake factory in Ceasers Palace sold Stella!
All I found otherwise was Heiniken, Sam Adams, Fosters and Bud....
Well, bar the micro breweries, which are all good! ;)
And a nice named beer called 'Fat Tire Amber Ale'!
If you've not drunk 'Stella' or it's colloquial name of 'Wife Beater', then try it. You won't go back!!!
GL, why are you posting this?
Nightstrike doesn't get it.
October 30 2005 3:10 AM EST
lol... GL is a trip
October 30 2005 5:19 AM EST
GL thought he was posting in my 'ah breakfast' post....
Friends don't let friends post while inebriated. :-)
More drinks more fun! Yay!
No, Bast, I don't get it. I thought that my indepth post would elicit at least SOME intelligent responses. Instead, it would seem like no one really cares.
November 1 2005 1:26 PM EST
"it would seem like no one really cares"
Correct, we stopped caring about the NUB a while back because;
Some see it as too strong,
Some see it as just right,
Some can't see anything unless you draw a picture with crayons.
I am out of crayons ;)
That and everyone comes to a NUB thread wearing flamesuits and boxing gloves.
GAHHH!!!!! Made a long reply for you NS, so long I was logged out while typing and it lost my message while trying to post.
Not going to do that again.
Long and short, Dude, stop making it so personal, it's not just *You* that needs a way to catch the top, it's everyone who isn't number 1.
And camping was never a solution to the problem.
And the NUB isn't a fair way of giving everyone their 'one shot' at CB.
I've made lots of posts on the NUB and inability to reach number one, they should shed some light.
I would have given lots of examples, but I'm not typing all that out again.
Oh and Camping was removed because it was exploitable.
So it the NUB, it just takes 4 months to exploit. So why isn't that removed?
what are you trying to imply?
Imply? I'm stating that anyone can abuse the NUB.
I'm not imlying any exisitng players have or do.
NightStrike, I liked your post. The thing I liked the best about it was you attempted to offer solutions to the problems you see. That is a lot better than many NUB posts can say. Also you didn't just yell and scream you presented emperically based facts. It is truly a shame that what MrWuss said is true. The signal to noise ratio on anything involving NUB is so bad right now, no one hears anything any more.
That said, I doubt very seriously that anyone with the impetus or ability to do anything about the NUB or to look at whether any of your suggestions could and/or should be implemented, will even notice it. That is pretty sad to me. Seems that the community and the people in charge of it were much more connected on CB1, but perhaps that is just grass is always greener wishful thinking.
I agree that without the equalizer that camping was, there is no mechanism to do anything other than to just play the game and have fun where you can if you do not have the NUB. You have no chance of catching the top without winning the lottery and buying an existing character with gear. I consider myself fairly versed in the game strategies and there is no way I can do it either, so do not feel bad.
End result, you either have fun with what you got, trying to beat up the people above you, finding little cracks to exploit and get better rewards, or find another game to play. (NightStrike if you need any suggestions on ones to check out send me a chatmail)
I have found that many of the things that kept me active and burning every possible BA (and buying it) are gone. I know I will not catch the top ever again. I know I will never be able to leverage my good karma and fast reflexes into an advantage that I could use to overcome all the obstacles starting over presents. Sure I still play, and yes I find some fun where I can, but for me at least the golden days are over.
I did try the whole auction thing myself. As you say does not work, not even with a decent bankroll. Anyway, I am sorry that a new voice, speaking thoughtfully and intelligently about a problem that exists and that presents some possible solutions to those problems can no longer be heard. It does not surprise me, but it does make me sad. I hope you can find your place here NightStrike, if not I hope you find something else you enjoy even more. And as always, if I can help, just ask.
November 1 2005 3:24 PM EST
funny thing sefton. i made an entire post about this and got laughed at. they called me a greedy ex camper. maybe you will see better results
I doubt it Mega, but Happy B-day to you! I forgot to add my obligatory disgruntled ex-camper tag to my post too! So that will certainly show up, adding more noise. While I may or may not be popular with the community at large, the people who actually make decisions obviously do not think very much of me. However, NightStrike is a friend, and he made a well thought out post so I had to try. Perhaps he would have better luck in his next post if he does not mention me :)
November 1 2005 3:43 PM EST
I just keep saying to wait and see what Kitty's MPR looks like by the time her NUB is done. If it blows past someone who basically fought with the same vigor for more than twice as long, and if such a circumstance is deemed OK by the creator and administrators of the game, then I think that will be a tremendous shame. But there is not a whole lot of point to any of it until we truly see what happens (this goes along with Sefton's point about using empirical facts, with which I agree entirely).
"there is no mechanism to do anything other than to just play the game and have fun where you can if you do not have the NUB. You have no chance of catching the top without winning the lottery and buying an existing character with gear."
I'm sad that there doesn't seem to be the desire to fix this. Active player base becomes a 4 month rotation (bar those at the top desperate to keep their position).
November 1 2005 3:59 PM EST
I support of the NUB, except that it needs to be tweak a bit (NUB length should be based on the average of top 10 or 20, instead of top #1).
The reason is that NUB proportion is out of whack right now. While new players can play the game to catch to the top #1-5 with NUB, which further feed the NUB lengths, old players like top 20-40 without NUB will never able to catch to Top 10. As time passed, more and more NUB players will continue reaching Top 10 and further displacing top 20-40 to top 30-40 and so on.
The vicious circle continue. Longer NUB length will continue displacing old players who are not currently in Top 10, thus have 0 chance to succeed.
I agree with you there GL! It was a problem before camping was removed, now its only that much bigger. I have a couple of ways to get bigger rewards than average at lower levels, but no true method as of yet for the mid to high levels. I honestly doubt there is one. That said, you get one shot, your first shot, and if you fail with that one, you are done. You can play, have fun doing whatever, but you have no shot to even pretend to reach the top.
I will say this. I created 5 chars Jan 1st. I played one called Sefton for 2 months. It was not doing well so I abondoned it, and started playing with Gyaxx. Even though everyone else had a 2 month head start on me, I took Gyaxx to top 5, and at one time (there was maybe still is screen shot of it) was the top char in the game. I did this without investing USD, I used camping. So, before camping was removed, there was a mechanism to overcome late start without a NUB (since I created all the chars Jan 1 I never had NUB with any of mine)
There seems to be a trend. I notice patterns. The trend seems to be to encourage all new players and discourage all veterans. This trend follows these game changes.
Closing CB1 - the stagnation it created means that all veterans have to eventually either come to cb2 or quit
Creation of the NUB - 'nuff said
NW to PR link - This link means that those who have been playing awhile, have accumulated a lot of assets cannot truly use them again for restarting. You have to restart at the same NW pace as the NUB's without the benefit of the NUB.
Removal of camping - You can say what you want about why this was done. Regardless of the why, the result is, that veteran players cannot leverage the veteran knowledge of camping to their advantage. If a NUB started camping, as Jon mentioned many times, they were dumb. Better to fight and grow while you have the NUB than to waste that bonus on camping with no benefit and lots of veteran competition.
I am starting to get the hint. How about other veterans?
P.S. and yes after the outcry on first one, and then lanslide popular vote on the second one, I get an additional hint more so than simple game changes about how much my participation in CB2 is desired.
November 1 2005 7:53 PM EST
I was one of my saddest days in cb when you told me you sold Gyaxx. I loved our interactions.
I votes for you for QB and still believe you are one. You got robbed in my book.
My opinion on the NUB, NW/PR and the other changes are obviously well know. With this being a change month, perhaps changes can be made to get older players reexcited about the game. By the end of the month, Kitty should be right behind me (with 2 more weeks of NUB to go) or she possibly will have passed me.
Kitty is now in the top 10 so she gets that exemption. She is growing at 50k MPR a week compared to me 20k. With her being about 150k behind me, in 4 weeks she should reach me as I am taking a long needed vacation in early November.
There have been numerous posts on this thread and I would ask it to be over now change month is here.
thanks to all who posted.
I am getting a bit ticked and tired with your vacation post like it was a perfect way out to lean on just in case anyone pass you. I , too , am a student and have a life too just like everyone else, and of course i do expect a nice Thanks Giving week with family too. But thanks for giving up. The MVP scoreboard have already shown your spirit this month.
Has been very nice playing with you. I quit.
November 1 2005 9:02 PM EST
A few things.
1) I just had a hurricaine ramble through south florida and have been without power since last monday. I have never used it as an excuse for my 'lack' of production as you call it. While I have been able to play on my treo, there are a few posts on the problems I am having with the new programming Jon and Verifex instituted. I have in no way "given up". But the only time I can really play is at the hospital where I work. I am not holding back wanting you to pass me as you seem to think.
2) My vacation: I was to take one last month but some personal problems made me postpone it. I am not using it as an excuse and full well expect you to pass me even without the hurricaine or my vacation involved. I am pointing out the fact I will be away, as people are seeing if you will pass me.
3) I hope you do not and others do not think I am against new players. I hope you remember that I have lent you items for free. Just as I have other players.
But just like Mikel before you, and many that will follow you, your being looked at closely by a divided community.
Personally I am over whether or not I can keep the top spot. Recent events in South Florida showed me a thing or 2. But do not use my posts about you catching me as a reason to quit. I hope you stay as another person in the top ranks. But if you do, it is your decision.
Psh poor excuse to quit it was exciting watching you climb the ranks.
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